20: The Business of Networking & Balancing Wellness (w/ Michelle Bullard)

All right, Michelle Bullard, thank you for coming on and talking to me.

Thank you, Josh, for having me on your show.

I was looking forward to this, and I know that there’s a lot of layers to you, and I wanted to kick off by understanding what brought you to where you are, as far as being the executive director of our networking group that I’m a part of.

It’s called Network Professionals International, and it’s one of seven local chapters.

We meet every Wednesday at the St.

Petersburg Yacht Club.

It has transformed my business.

I’ve met incredible people, obviously you included, but our network of people has changed my life for the better, and obviously we’ll dive into that.

I know you’ve been a teacher in the past, but I kind of wanted to understand how you became an executive director of a networking group and the power of that that you hold and how you make so many connections and how cool is that?

I know that’s like loaded, but how did you get there?

How did you get there?

It’s kind of a crazy story, actually.

It’s not something that I set out to do.

I never knew that something like that even existed.

Interesting thing, when I was in college, I switched my major a couple times in the very beginning and then stuck with marketing for a while, did an internship, which was actually a good internship, but then realized more than likely, I’d probably be going into sales.

And I was confident with it myself, but I thought, my gosh, I’ll probably wind up selling something to people that they either don’t want or need.

I’m not sure if this is really the route for me.

So I made a last minute decision in the fall of my senior year in college and went and talked with a professor.

She was the head of the education department and told her my story that my first job, or not my first job, but one of my summer jobs during high school, my favorite, was working at the YMCA with seven and eight year old kids for $2.89 an hour.

And even back then, that wasn’t that much money, but I absolutely loved it.

And she said, well, I think you’ve kind of made a decision here.

You know, it sounds like you like to work with kids.

And so I quickly scrambled.

Again, it was the fall of my senior year.

I had to call my dad and make that really heavy phone call and, you know, ask for permission to stay an extra year to try to cram in my credit.

So I did that and became a teacher.

And then I did that for a few years, had children of my own, actually went into real estate for a year and a half.

My husband’s a real estate broker and he said, you know, this would be great.

We could switch things off.

And it sounded great.

And I really liked it.

And the way that I got started with that was because I was helping my friends looking on the internet for help.

So it was just kind of like a fun thing to do.

And so I got into the business, but the problem was the way I saw it is that my kids were really young at the time and it was difficult to be gone on weekends showing properties.

So at any rate, coming now to answering your question, I was looking for something to do where it was flexible from home.

And again, mentioning that my husband does real estate, there was a guy from a company called Send Out Cards, and he was targeting realtors for follow-up program purposes.

Send Out Cards is based in Salt Lake City, Utah, and it’s a greeting cards and gifts, but it’s all you do.

You organize everything online through your computer and then in Salt Lake, they print stuff stamp and mail it out for you.

So it was an excellent program, still is, especially for realtors who have so many clients and they don’t know necessarily how to system how to follow up.

And my husband was one of those people at the time.

So he said, the only thing is, I don’t believe that this card, this greeting card, putting pictures on it, making it look like your own handwriting, that kind of thing, is as cheap as you are saying it is.

And he said, well, that’s easy.

Just send one to your wife at home, and then you can see what it looks like.

So he did that, and it came, and he’s like, my gosh, I can’t believe the quality of this, you know, not very expensive, and so on.

So he said to me, I think this might be something for you.

Because when we met in college, I used to go to the Hallmark store.

Even when I was a little kid, I’d ride my bike up there, and I’d spend, gosh, probably an hour or two looking for the perfect birthday card with the perfect message for one of my family members, the little gifts that they sold in the Hallmark store.

That was my thing.

And when we met in college, I used to send him birthday cards and things like that through the campus mail.

And so my husband, well, he was my boyfriend at the time, and he said, it’s great that you’re sending me these cards and that you’re doing this.

He said, but I’m not really a card sender, so just wanted you to know that.

So he remembered that, and I thought this could be something for me.

So I started with the company Sendout Cards, and I had three kids at home and had a lot of contacts, but he said, what you might want to do is get into networking.

And he was actually a member of NPI at the time.

He said, but there’s another organization out there, and that might be something for you.

So I joined that organization, and I got really involved in networking and learned all about it in a matter of three years.

And then eventually, like I said, he was involved in NPI.

The founder of NPI, Dan Doody, was looking to retire.

And so he was selling off the various areas of NPI that he had.

So he approached my husband to ask if he would want to buy the rights to South Pinellas.

And he said, sure.

So he wanted to do that, but he said, you should be the one to run this.

And it wasn’t run quite the way that the other organization that I came from was to run.

And I thought, this is gonna be a bit of an uphill battle for me.

And he said, yeah, but you can do it, you know, and it’ll take a little bit of time and so on.

So that’s how it actually happened.

And so, but I wasn’t able to get involved the first year because the other organization I was in had a non-compete that I had signed.

And so they said, you can be a member of a chapter, but you can’t even hold any type of position, even if it’s a simple type position.

So that is why my husband ran at the first year.

And then after that, then I was able to step in and get involved.

What year was that?

So we bought the region in 2012.

I think it was the spring of 2012, I believe.

And then I started in in the fall of 2013.

Awesome.

You’ve done a great job of building such a valuable network.

You know, I don’t think about it every day that we go to our Wednesday meeting and the other meetings, but networking is so foundational to business.

And I mean, personal relationships in general.

You know, without it, it’s like how would people connect?

It’s also the old school way of selling.

You know, now we have paid ads and you could go online and websites and all that, which is great, you know, but networking is the pillar of where it all happens, to build trust and understand really what each other do and to have your team, you know, because for me, I don’t have a massive company, and so the other members in the group are like my sales team.

They’re resources for my clients because they do what I don’t do and for my family and friends.

It’s just there’s so many benefits to it.

And when I tell people about it, when I’m inviting them to NPI, it’s hard to like stop talking about it because I’m like, well, also, yeah, you get referrals, but also for me, I start my day off strong.

It helps me to maintain a CEO mindset because I’m surrounded and inspired by all these other business owners who are crushing it.

And so we’re all uplifting each other.

And the list just goes on and on.

And we read these five benefits of NPI.

At the end of every chapter, I’m like, five, there’s like 500.

Exactly.

I agree with that.

Yeah, it’s just and it’s funny because again, you know, they don’t really teach that when you’re young, at least where I was from.

I didn’t learn about networking, per se.

I didn’t know there was such thing as a networking organization.

But I didn’t really even realize when I was younger that that’s kind of what I was just doing naturally.

Right.

And even in high school, working on a student government level, you know, working with the people in my class.

A couple years in a row, I was class president.

So you have to learn to get along with different personalities.

You have to learn what their wants and needs are.

For me, I didn’t ever see leadership as running it like a dictatorship, you know.

Everyone needs to feel like they have a say in things.

And you need to do, I feel as a leader, more listening than talking, you know, really observing.

But I think networking, a lot of times, you know, people think, oh, well, it’s so simple.

And is it really, you know, because a lot of people, no matter what I’ve found over the years, no matter what their educational background is, however many degrees they have and so on, some people just don’t understand the basics of networking, you know, so it can be complicated because I think a lot of times people make it complicated.

I was just about to say, you know, people get wrapped up and overcomplicating.

Really, all you have to do is show up and start talking to people.

You don’t even have to talk about your business.

You can start to talk about other things or ask questions about their business because people love talking about themselves and inherently, then they’re going to learn about you and you’re going to build that relationship.

But I think people way overcomplicate it.

It’s like, just show up.

And the rest will happen as long as you’re a nice person and you genuinely care or are interested.

The rest falls into place.

It’s true.

And I think, you know, especially for whether the person be younger or whether they’re first starting out in their business, there’s a lot of stress there, especially a lot of times financially.

And so they have a bit of what I call a scarcity mindset.

And that, you know, that kind of comes off to others, whether you’re saying things, you know, in relationship to that or whether they just notice it in your body language, they can tell, you know.

And I always think about it that no one wants that use car salesperson approach.

But, you know, and we know we’re not supposed to be doing that in networking, but a lot of people just kind of freeze up and they go back to those tactics, if you will.

And then I see them going into the, well, what am I going to get out of it?

What about me?

What about me?

What about me?

Because I need to hurry up and pay bills and so on.

And yes, that’s absolutely true.

But like you said, if you take it more on the simple side of things and realize this is another human being on the other side of the table, for instance, when you’re meeting with them outside of a chapter meeting or something like that, you know, I’ve heard the analogy.

It’s like dating, you know, when you first meet someone, you’re not going to go zero to 60 with this person in 10 minutes.

You have to establish a relationship.

You have to get to know that person, understand what their family is like, you know, what are some of their habits.

I mean, there’s different things you’re looking for, right, when it’s a relationship type thing that way.

But in networking, you’ve got to get an understanding of who is this person, what makes them tick, what motivates them.

And that’s where I completely agree with you that you want to ask questions.

And, you know, I’ve met people who are fearful.

They’re fearful to talk in public.

They’re fearful even to meet one on one, but especially in a group of people.

You know, and I always say, even if you walk into a room with strangers, I actually did it last night.

It’s a social thing, but it’s called dinner with strangers.

So it couldn’t be any stranger than that, right?

And so I walked in with a couple of people that I knew.

But other than that, I didn’t know anybody in the room.

You know, and I just started introducing myself, asking questions.

And I always give the advice that if you’re nervous about it, just act like you are the host or you are the hostess.

And just start engaging with people and asking them about, like you said, exactly themselves.

And naturally, the conversation will flow back to you, or you can add in things that they’ve talked about or whatever.

But if you just shove yourself in front of them, like that used car salesperson approach, they’re going to be turned off immediately, and they’re not going to really want to open up to you.

Yeah, it’s off putting.

All you have to do is like find a question, you know, whatever it is.

The easiest one is like, hey, what do you do?

What brought you here?

There’s so many easy questions.

But even just approaching someone and asking that simple question, a lot of people are super intimidated by that, and that takes practice in itself.

For me, I started networking technically in like 2008, where I went to a computer graphics conference, and it goes all over the world.

And it was weird at first putting myself into that position, but then I started to realize, wait, everybody else is here to do this.

So it’s almost awkward if I don’t engage, because then I’m just going to be this awkward person in the corner not interacting with anybody.

So might as well just go, hey, you want to be my friend?

Well, and again, I mean, here we are.

I can take you back to my experience with elementary school.

And everyone has attended elementary school, so even if you weren’t an elementary school teacher, from the student standpoint, it’s like a new kid coming into school, and you know that they’re scared to death to enter that classroom for the first time.

And I think it, I don’t know why exactly, but just naturally when someone would come in new to the classroom, I was excited.

This is a new face.

This is somebody else we get to know, someone who’s going to be a part of our community in our classroom.

And I wanted to get to know them right away.

And even from a teacher’s standpoint, how can I make them feel comfortable?

Again, being that host, hostess type of mindset.

And I think a lot of times we all forget that everybody feels the same way, whether they’re willing to admit it to you or not.

And it really doesn’t matter what age they are.

It doesn’t matter how many degrees they’ve had.

We all have those butterflies inside because we’re all a kid inside.

And I think that if we could remember that, that everyone’s just a kid inside, maybe it wouldn’t be quite as intimidating.

I think that goes, applies to many other aspects of life.

I taught as well at a university level, and I resonate with what you’re saying.

For me, it took me a little.

It took me maybe a couple, we did trimesters.

I believe, man, it’s been a bit.

But ultimately, it took me maybe a year to really settle in to where I could just walk into the class and be like, all right, guys, what’s up?

And I was in charge of breaking the ice.

And I would just immediately start engaging with people and getting people engaged, and then making it not sterile.

And I don’t know, there’s a lot to that, but that took practice.

But ultimately, just starting, just taking the reins and going like, all right.

Sometimes it helped to also point out, hey, this is awkward, huh?

None of us know each other.

Let’s get to know each other.

And I just pointed out, all right, we’re going to break this ice.

Rather than being awkward about it and trying to go around the elephant in the room, instead being like, hey, everybody, check out this elephant.

Let’s laugh at the elephant, and now let’s dive in.

Because we’re going to get to know each other by dissecting each other’s work.

You know, from the creative standpoint, like the shirt I’m wearing, someone puts it on the screen.

We’re going to go, hey, this is great, but have you thought about using blue here or whatever?

And your feelings and your ego have to be checked at the door, and you have to feel comfortable in this environment.

And so it’s like, how can we break down those barriers quickly so that everybody can just learn, you know, collaborate and grow together?

And, you know, as we’re talking about, I feel like a lot of these things link up with like networking or teaching and what’s in the classroom versus what’s in a networking organization with business owners.

It’s wild all of the different threads that are similar in these things.

From my podcast alone, having all these different people that I’ve interviewed, business owners, lawyers, bands, there are so many similar threads to a lot of what’s going on in life, and a lot of the complexity, I think, is all in our minds, you know, where it’s people just get in their own way or get in each other’s way when we could just simplify it and either address the elephant or the room or just ask a question and take it easy, take it down a notch.

Then we go, oh, we’re like 98% the same, and we’re here for the same reason.

So let’s learn how to collaborate and cooperate together.

Absolutely great.

And one of the things that they talk to you when you read different books about networking, and I’ve definitely experienced this and try to kind of help members understand it, is that when you can find a common denominator, and it really doesn’t matter what it is, that you have something simple even that you can find that you have in common with another person.

For instance, maybe you play the same sport, or maybe you played the same sport.

Maybe the two of you don’t even play it anymore.

Maybe you got older and life got in the way and so on.

But when you find that key thing, whatever that’s going to be for the two of you, you’re going to look at one another in a completely different way from there on out.

You’re always going to remember, oh, that’s Josh, that’s the one who did such and such.

And it’s a great way to start to establish a relationship with another person to figure out what that’s going to be.

And it’s going to be different for every person that you meet with.

And so you have to think, you have to prepare ahead of time.

What are you about and what are some of the things that you’ve done and how can you be interesting to other people when they’re asking you questions?

Hopefully, a lot of times, you learn that you want to make sure that you ask open-ended questions.

My daughter was just talking to me.

She works at a little tanning salon where she goes to school and college.

And they were doing a training for the employees.

And the gal in charge was asking, you know, does everyone know the difference between an open-ended question and a closed question?

Well, she had already, I guess, answered a lot of the things.

So she said she wanted to kind of step back and let someone else.

It was like a Zoom call.

And no one else said anything.

So then the lady has to go through the full explanation of, it was painful, of open-ended versus closed.

But I think that’s where it gets tough, like you said, when no one takes the approach to break the ice.

And humor is such a great thing that you can use to do that.

And again, little kids, we all appreciated humor.

And even when our teachers could be that way, think about it.

When you had a teacher walking into the room, or maybe it’s a substitute, and they’re all very formal and very structured, and they don’t crack a smile.

They used to make jokes that the teacher shouldn’t smile until Christmas with their students.

And I thought, oh my gosh, that’s a long time not to ever crack a smile.

That could be really tough and really boring.

And kids don’t really want to learn in an environment like that.

And it’s the same thing for adults.

It’s very difficult to interact in an environment like that where everyone’s just rigid or possibly full of themselves with an ego that they didn’t, like you said, check at the beginning.

Because it’s hard to be collaborative in nature with other people when you have ego issues going on or when you refuse to share with people or think you know it all and those kinds of things.

Yeah, 100%.

That’s why I like networking.

It kind of humbles you because you see all these other people.

First off, you realize, I know very little about so much.

And also, I’m collaborating with these people.

Even if there’s overlap, like Sally doing print and design or Becky doing promotional products from our networking group.

There’s overlap, but we collaborate so well, and that’s beautiful.

And there’s no reason to put up these walls instead.

It’s like, let’s just collaborate and play jazz.

To your open-ended and closed-ended questions, first off, this would be a really boring podcast if I just asked, close-ended.

Oh, sure.

Where are you from?

What do you do?

What is your favorite color?

Do you like this?

Yes or no?

Exactly.

And it would take a lot more questions, too, on your part.

That would be exhausting for both parties.

I’d have to have a really long list of questions.

There is going to be one part in here where it’s not necessary, and still not closed, but I have very particular questions.

Yeah.

Also, to that end, we were speaking about breaking the ice and things like that.

I just want to mention that and add to that a technique in breaking the ice and getting to know someone or building that relationship is quickly finding that commonality.

You know, like 20 questions, you can pick an object in the universe, and with 20 questions, I can guess what that object in the universe is probably doing the right amount of questions.

And you can kind of use that same technique on figuring out what is common between us.

Oh my gosh, we’re both from Indiana.

How funny is that?

Oh, we both played hockey or whatever it is.

We like poker, whatever it is.

We like metal music.

And then now we’re pals.

Now we can talk about other stuff.

Or now the more difficult stuff is easier because we have that common thread.

Definitely.

There’s just so much to it.

Well, and I think too, as long as you’re not close minded initially with a person, let’s say that you have someone in a networking chapter and you’ve already stereotyped that individual in your mind.

They haven’t set a thing yet, but you kind of size that person up, let’s say, and you think you have, I should say, a pretty good idea of who that person is and what they’re about.

And you really don’t.

Uh-uh.

No.

You really don’t.

And it goes that way even with categories as well.

I’ve used the example, we have a plumber who’s been in one of the chapters for many years, and everyone thinks they pretty much know what a plumber does.

I mean, if you have a house or apartment and the toilet breaks, you call a plumber.

It’s easy.

Yeah, we know what plumbers do.

But we need to learn, back to your point about being a Salesforce team for one another, we needed to learn that he does residential and only at the time wanted to do light commercial.

So really, if we spent all of our time and spun our wheels looking for commercial referrals for him, that was kind of a waste of time.

And yes, you could probably refer it to someone else he knows.

But we want to be more specific as to the things that we should be looking for for this individual in their category.

But back to the personal side, definitely trying your best not to stereotype.

And that is one of the things that I like to work on with the members is really encouraging them not to do that.

Because you’ll be absolutely surprised what you find out when you sit down, really, one to one, you talk with that individual, and you ask those questions, they’re going to say things that you didn’t expect.

And you’re going to say things to them that they didn’t expect.

And that’s the beauty of it all.

I was just about to say that.

That’s the beauty of life.

You don’t ever know what is the person that you’ve just met has been through, or done, or accomplished.

They could be in a gold medal Olympian and a plumber as well.

And you don’t know until you don’t judge and be open enough to dive in with them.

Definitely.

But I’ve learned that through traveling the world and meeting really fascinating people, our networking group has helped a lot because also it’s very specific.

Oh, that’s a lawyer.

That’s a home inspector.

So you put them in a box, but it’s like, well, once we get to do a one-to-one, they’re not in that box anymore.

And don’t put them in that box to begin with, because who knows what they did before?

That’s right.

And like I said, that’s the beauty of life.

We’re all walking around with so much experience that none of us could ever explain the full experiences that we’ve had, but we can be interested and learn from what we can and understand each other better from it.

Definitely agree.

And the other thing is, I mean, and it doesn’t matter if I’m executive director, if I’m a member like I was in my other organization, the thing that just blew me away is the fact that here I was originally in the business school in college and marketing and so on.

And of course, that’s been more years than I’d like to admit.

But I have gotten so much knowledge over the years about business in general, all different types of businesses and doing what I do.

In addition to reading books, one of my favorite things to do is go to Barnes and Noble in person and look through the business section.

And as much as I know, I probably should be reading fiction as well to balance myself.

I don’t.

I’m all about nonfiction and it’s always business books.

That’s fun for me.

So I kind of look at that as somewhat of a master’s level of things that I’ve done over the years.

And I couldn’t tell you what literally every book was about from cover to cover, but these things will just pop into my head.

I’m like, where did I even get that from?

Oh, that was that book or oh, and so on.

But looking at life in general, not just business, but looking at life in general as such an opportunity, first of all, such a gift.

And then secondly, such an opportunity to really be a sponge for life, because I feel strongly that that’s what we’re supposed to be.

We’re supposed to be lifelong learners.

And even if you retire from your business, you should still be going, you know, still learning.

And, you know, even if physically, at some point, you can’t keep up as much, when you get that much older, you can certainly do it through conversations, you know.

Yeah, that’ll always be there.

Always an opportunity.

Yeah, yeah.

Conversation is the pillar of so much.

Agreed.

How do we start anything, any project, any collaboration, any change that happens in the world?

Yeah.

That’s why I like this format.

Yeah, definitely.

And I think you mentioned the word humbling.

I’m trying to remember what that was about specifically.

But just thinking of that word, it keeps you humble.

Because otherwise, if you don’t do that, you don’t constantly engage with others and try to think of things from, which I definitely try to do, think of it from their point of view, you will be calloused.

You will be full of ego because you’ll be thinking you’ve gotten to the point where you pretty much done it all and you know it all and therefore, here am I.

You know what I’m saying?

And that’s just nobody wants to be around that person.

No.

And you’ll probably get to the point, I would imagine, I would never want to be that, but I can only imagine you get to that point.

You don’t even want to be around yourself, probably at that point, so don’t do that.

Yeah, I love this quote, the more you know, the more you don’t know.

I feel like once you start to learn about something, if you start to learn about particle physics, you’re never going to see the end of that.

Or like for me, design or the principles of art, you could apply that anyway, infinitely.

So there is no end.

And if you felt like you’ve reached the end, then you’ve just gotten bored or you’ve given up or you’re ready to check out.

That’s a bummer, I mean, to each their own, but that’s not…

I agree with you.

I think people start to deteriorate when they turn things off, when they stop learning, when they stop exploring.

That’s why I like the realm that I am in, is the creative realm.

We can create whatever.

There’s always more music and more songs to make.

There’s more designs and art to make.

And if you get stuck, there are methods and processes to get unstuck, you know, going for a walk or traveling or exploring a new medium, whatever that may be.

Well, and going through, I mean, everybody hesitates to talk about it, but going through the process with COVID.

One of the things that I experienced personally is that when things got overwhelming with human beings and all the chatter and everything on TV, and you know, what do I believe?

What don’t I believe?

It was so confusing for everybody, basically.

The things I ended up gravitating towards were music and art.

And I’ll tell you, I was terrible at art my whole life, I still am, but can so appreciate the beauty of it, and music, how it soothes the soul.

It’s just unbelievable.

And I found myself, you know, listening to songs from a long time ago.

There was a particular channel on Pandora that I was listening to, I’m trying to remember what it was called.

And I just found that soothing, you know, just going back to simpler times in life, you know, when I was young, you know, even some music before that.

So, there’s a definite need for that.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, imagine life without art and music.

No, thank you.

What are we doing?

And it’s transformative, like you said, you know, since, you know, for me, you know, putting on particular music, I’ll go from literally classical to metal within 10 minute period of time, depending on, okay, I’ve been in classical mode for a while, now I’m ready to ramp it up.

Or ready to ramp it down, you know, calming my mind or this or that.

And it’s just all about what I’m intending to do, where I want to transport.

I also like listening to older music from my time and my past and nostalgic music, or even before because of the style, the sounds, the fidelity of that is, it transports you.

And for me, I’m very visual, and so when I work, I like to feel like I’m in a space.

So metal puts me in a particular space, classical puts me in a space.

I have curate many playlists in Spotify to transport me.

And then I’m comfortable, and now I can focus on my work, you know, but there’s a lot of power to that.

Well, and one of the things I like to do, I’m a big documentary fan.

Me too.

And that’s really one of the few things, yeah, we’ve talked about this, I think, on TV.

But even further, more specific, are music documentaries.

You know, it’s so interesting, because even growing up, a lot of the bands that I listened to and so on, I didn’t really know much about those people.

I mean, we had magazines, you know, to look up that information, we had to read it.

Didn’t have stuff.

We didn’t have the internet, you know.

But, I really just, I didn’t know much about them, and you just listen to the cool music and what’s hip at the time.

And now, I, you know, look at these music documentaries and learn all about that person’s life.

You just had no idea where they even got their star, the obstacles, not just the obvious ones.

But again, that goes back to the networking idea of you just really don’t know a person, even if you got information about a star, a music star, and you thought you knew who that person was.

There’s so much more behind that individual and what made them tick, you know.

And then when you discover, oh, man, they came from nothing or they accomplished that and now they’re here.

And you listen to that music, you have a different perspective on like, whoa, you know, oh, that’s like why that guitar screams or, you know, those vocals are so powerful, you know, or that’s why they have that particular style, because they’re letting it out in this way.

You know, metal.

So I grew up in Indiana and like all my friends were in metal bands.

Carmel, Indiana was like this metal, it was such a random metal scene.

Some big bands came out of there from the metal scene.

But there is a very close correlation between classical and metal.

And now, specifically, some of the most talented musicians play metal because it’s so complex and so high energy and you can go from the very low to the very high and intense and everything in between.

But I lost my train of thought there, because I started to think about my past.

But you know, that’s okay, the fact that you’re mentioning even that.

I’m thinking about the fact, like with the stars and in networking, we’ve all had times where we’ve had our ups and our downs.

We’ve had obstacles.

The stars maybe quit for a while, you know, maybe the vocal cords weren’t working.

And you know, they’re so frustrated because that’s all I’ve ever done.

And then they have to kind of learn how to live without that, you know, for a certain time period.

And then they go back on the scene, you know, and all those kinds of things in life.

And even what you were, you know, what just happened with you about lost your train of thought.

It’s okay.

Because that happens to all of us.

And I got it back.

It came back.

And so go right ahead.

Do it.

I just like to cap it that some of my buddies who were in metal, that expression of theirs is a direct correlation to what had happened in their life.

And if they listen back, they’ll know exactly who I’m talking about.

And, you know, people in their life that they had lost early on.

And what do you do with all of that energy and all that sadness and rage?

And music is the outlet.

Instead of hurting others or committing crime or whatever, we’re going to play and we’re going to play the most high energy music we can possibly think of.

And that’s kind of what that realm is.

And so there’s there’s power in that same with art.

You know, like abstract art versus very technical schematic drawings.

You know, abstract art can be an outlet and schematic drawings can, too.

It’s beautiful.

I just realized how far we are and I have not looked at one of my questions, which I love when that happens, by the way.

Thank you for tuning in.

Do you like what you’re hearing?

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With our audio services ranging from custom music scores, sound branding, to podcast production, and so much more, we can elevate your business needs with our audio services.

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But we’ve been talking about a lot of highs as far as networking and things like that and how you got there, which is a fantastic journey.

But I also like to kind of highlight the lowlights.

And give people tangible stuff to learn from, maybe so they don’t have to make mistakes on their trajectory or their journeys, or just to dive in.

But I like to ask people about major setbacks and how you overcame that.

Is there a pivotal moment in your life that you can think of where it’s like, this was a major setback and this is how I got past that, that’s why I’m here.

Anything stick out?

Gosh, I mean, there’s a number of different times when I felt like I had some major setbacks.

But I mean, I’ll definitely refer to one that you know about that’s more recent with my business, but also my health, you know, back in, I mean, it started a little bit before that, but to be more specific about the story last year, just about a year ago, I was struggling with hormone issues and went to my doctor and explained that I was really tired.

I was on hormone pellets at the time and I’d been on for about a year or so.

And all of a sudden, you know, here I am trying to juggle seven different networking chapters, which I’d done for a period of time, but still it takes energy day in and day out, doing a few other things on the side, like, you know, kids in college and dogs and, you know, the norm, but at any rate, I was very tired throughout the day, which was not normal for me and extreme brain fog.

And if you’ve never had brain fog, good for you, because that is not a fun thing.

Trying to, like, when you were mentioning just a second ago about lost a train of thought, constant, like, all the time losing your train of thought, not just where did my keys go, but wait, what was I just thinking?

Wait, what did that person just say?

And it’s like that all day long.

So, and what are you gonna do?

Put a sign around your neck that says I’m out of order?

You know, I mean, I felt like I kinda needed to do that.

So at any rate, he ended up giving me a booster pellet and that within less than a week shot me into what I term, you know, insanity of insomnia.

I’d never had a problem sleeping prior to that in my life.

And all of a sudden, I couldn’t sleep.

And when I say that, I don’t mean a little tossing and turning like people do.

They get up to go to the bathroom in the night, those kinds of things.

But I’m talking about literally one night, for instance, I can remember it specifically, and I was still going to the gym, doing a spin class, working out with a trainer back to back a couple of times a week.

With that, I got two hours of sleep.

I think if I was lucky, I had two total hours of sleep.

But I had, he had overdosed me on testosterone, so I had so much in my system, that’s why I couldn’t sleep.

And I went and worked with the trainer for 45 minutes, and then I went to my spin class for 45 minutes, and then the rest of the day in the night, and I wasn’t tired.

And that’s really scary.

It’s great to have a lot of energy, but that’s way too much energy.

And then when I went to my next regular appointment, he increased, because that’s just a temporary thing, he increased the level of testosterone and increased my estrogen, which they hadn’t done before.

And so that in combination is what created really high anxiety and super dark depression.

So the insomnia, the anxiety, which you want to jump out of your skin literally and you can’t, you’re a hostage in your own body.

And then that probably is what created the dark depression, because you are completely miserable.

So I stuck it out as long as I could, working wise, because that started in April.

And I think I quit working at the end of June that year, or last summer, and then had to basically quit for about six months.

I took a little temporary job in the fall when I started to get better, teaching-wise, just because I was so bored.

But my sleep wasn’t quite ready yet to do morning meetings and things like that.

So I did that for a couple months and then came back.

But yeah, to step back from a business that you had done, that you loved, I mean, every business, you have your highs and lows, obviously.

But I was beyond exhausted, and to have to step away from something for six months, I didn’t think, I don’t know if I’ve told many people this, but I didn’t think I was coming back, at all, ever.

But my husband was wise enough to know not to do anything with the business, because he had to step in temporarily, but he was wise enough to know not to do anything with the business, because he had the faith that I would come around one day, you know, mentally come back, because these pellets had to run through my system, and we all knew that, you know, three to five month time period, which doesn’t sound too bad in the scope of life, but when you’re going through that every day and staring at the walls, waiting for the next day to come and pretty much wish that you weren’t around, period, it’s a long time, you know, to wait, but just grasping on with any little bit of hope that you can find, and there’s always something new to the day and the morning.

There’s a beauty to that.

And where we live, we have really neat sunrises, and, you know, I was up a lot, so it wasn’t a problem to see those.

We have a lot of great natural light in our house, and so those things, just the simple things, listening to a lot of music, listening to a lot of podcasts, and, you know, just motivational speakers, anything I could grab onto, I was desperate.

You know, I couldn’t sit down and read.

I couldn’t sit down and watch TV because of the anxiety.

So whatever I could grab onto is what I did.

So the point in saying all of that, that’s definitely a major setback.

But you’re on the other end.

I’m on the other end.

And the great news is I’ve been on the other end for several months, you know, in a row.

And I’ve come back, it sounds like a cliche, but it’s not.

I’ve come back better than I’ve ever been in my life.

And I was talking with my husband not too long ago about that, and he said, we met in college, and he’s like, I think you’re better than even back then.

And I’m like, oh gosh, what does that mean?

He’s like, well, you know, when you’re younger and you have issues that you’re coming out of, you know, divorced parent household, and you know, anger issues and different things like that.

I’m like, yeah, I know what you’re saying.

So I didn’t take it personal.

But what I learned through that whole process, and now I’m gonna try to quote from this book that I’ve been reading.

This is a fun book that I’m reading.

It’s by Reba McIntyre.

It’s got beautiful, it has beautiful pictures in it.

I got it mostly because I wanted to do it before I went to bed.

Like it’s not anything that’s gonna keep you up or whatever.

It’s the simplicity of life.

And I believe the title is Not That Fancy.

And so I was reading this section last night.

She was talking about a French bulldog that they had and ended up passing away.

And they were really upset over this.

And she said, you have to be careful about how serious you take life basically.

And she said that she felt that the secret to a life well lived is to get out of your head, take a step back, let loose, and live every moment like it’s possibly your very last.

And I thought, man, now if that doesn’t say it all in one sentence, then I don’t know what.

And that’s what I learned from the setback.

You know, everybody has a different personality.

And, you know, I was definitely my whole life a perfectionist, you know, which is maybe great for a lot of other people, especially people you work for, because you’re driven.

No one has to tell you, you know.

I mean, yes, they can give you critical feedback, but they don’t have to motivate you.

You’re already motivated because you’re cracking the whip on your own self.

But again, people used to say all the time, you know, you’re your worst critic, Michelle.

And they’re absolutely right.

And I’ve been able to get out of my head, step back, definitely let loose in life and not in an inappropriate way.

That’s not what she means obviously by it.

But giving yourself the liberty to be able to do that.

And in business, I think that’s what we need to keep in mind for sure is that, you know, especially in times when we have a lot of obstacles going on and you know, some scarcity going on and we think, my gosh, you know, I’m just not good at this anymore.

I should probably just quit.

I remember in Send Out Cards, there’s a guy that used to always say, he’s one of the top leaders in the company, and Jordan Adler is his name.

He’s in a different upline, but I’ve met him personally.

He’s just a fantastic individual, great energy.

And he always said, never quit on a bad day.

And as many times in Send Out Cards as I wanted to quit, and there was many, I thought, well, I can’t do it today because this is a bad day, so I can’t quit.

I have to wait till tomorrow.

It was just the neatest thing.

And so I think a lot of times we can get so pent up with everything and put all the stress on ourselves.

And other people, like I said before with networking, they can feel that coming out of you.

And so even though you’re not saying, I’m stressed, I’m this, I’m that, all of the lights are flashing red when they’re sitting down and talking to you.

And they maybe don’t even completely realize what’s going on, but it’s like, I don’t really want to buy from this person’s product or service.

Like, oh my, they’re kind of a walking mess right now.

And so I think if we can get out of our own way, as you said, I think earlier, and get out of our heads and give ourselves the freedom.

We’re always able to be so patient with my students, my kids, spouse, whatever, whoever it was.

Obviously, you have your moments or whatever, but I was always a patient personality.

And I thought when I went through this experience, my gosh, you were patient with everyone but you.

Why weren’t you patient?

Why did you do that to yourself?

If you were a friend, that going on, you would have never wanted to be that friend.

Constantly criticizing so many times in the day and at night.

Basically, you’re your own worst critic, or your own worst enemy even.

And that’s what I realized.

And it’s been tough because sometimes when you finally have a realization like that, it’s hard not to go back into the past and go, well, if I would have just done this, would have, could have, should have, but didn’t.

And I’ve been doing a great job these last few months of holding those negative thoughts captive immediately when they come in and shoving them back in and saying, that’s the past, you’re here.

And focusing on really living in the present.

Because I think something I read recently said that if you are focused on the past, then that’s the depression side of things.

And if you’re focused on the future, that’s what creates the anxiety because it hasn’t even happened yet.

You’re running through your mind all these different scenarios that could possibly happen, which most of them never will.

Maybe none of them will.

But living in the present moment.

And I think we’re all aware that we should be doing that.

And yet it’s the hardest thing to do.

But it’s the hardest thing.

And again, it’s that simple thing.

And it really is actually simple.

But we make it so complicated in our heads.

And then we wonder, why don’t people want to be around me or purchase the product or services I have to offer?

Yeah, because they can feel all of that.

I think everybody wants to be around.

Everyone has a different personality, obviously.

Some people are shy.

Some people are outgoing and so on.

But within whatever your personality is, I think everyone really appreciates being around someone who can just be themselves.

You hear that phrase in life, be yourself.

Everyone else is taken.

It’s so true, you know?

It’s very true.

And especially as we’re growing up, you know, in middle school and high school stages, I think everybody has faced it.

You know, we’re trying to figure out who we are.

And we’re, you know, especially, I can speak for girls.

You know, I want to look like this person.

And you know, I want to have that outfit and so on.

And it’s really, people don’t see the way that you see yourself.

And if you would just calm down, realize like Reva McIntyre is talking about in her book, just kind of kick off your shoes, so to speak, and take life a little bit easier.

It doesn’t mean you still don’t work at things.

You’re still not driven and so on.

But you got to take time for yourself and you got to take care of yourself.

And you’ve got to provide personal care.

And I think that’s a lot of times too, in businesses when we’re just running, running, running, driving, driving, driving.

We don’t always remember to take time for ourselves.

And if you, you know, we think of it as selfish, but it’s actually not.

Because just like they say when you’re on an airplane with young children.

Just about to say that.

I overheard you saying that at the last meeting about the air masks coming down.

Yeah, you put on the oxygen mask first and then you assist the child.

Yeah, because otherwise you can’t assist the child.

You can’t.

And you’re not doing anyone around you any good.

And if you’re one who hopefully wants to make a difference in your community, you can’t be effective that way if you’re not okay inside first and give yourself some of those freedoms.

Because how are you possibly going to turn around and have enough energy?

Yes, you can give people the patience and the this and the that.

I did that.

It’s possible.

However, you’re going to be exhausted.

And possibly a little resentful at times because it’s like, okay, well, all these other people are getting this, this, and this, and it seems to be going well for them.

But what’s going on with me?

Yeah.

You know?

So.

There’s a lot there.

But I, so number one, I’m inspired and very glad and grateful that you’re on the other end and out of, you know, that health scare, essentially, that is extremely complex.

You know, our bodies are an unbelievable machine of biologic anatomy and chemistry where a little extra of this or too little of that, and you’re off.

And it’s a big deal.

And then another reminder through this and maybe something that we could maybe continue to encourage maybe more in our networking groups, in our professional organizations, Sun Leaders, NPI, whatever it is, is like making sure to check in on each other.

Where it’s like, hey, let’s set aside the business for a second.

Let’s just take a day.

Is everybody okay?

I like that.

You okay?

I really like that.

And anybody need help with anything in particular?

Because we’re already vulnerable.

That’s it.

We’re around each other all the time.

I know when Mike’s sick.

I know when Crystal doesn’t feel well or you’re out or you’re on vacation.

We know so much about each other.

But maybe taking a formal, you know, maybe a quarterly check-in where it’s like, are we all good mentally?

Does anybody need any help?

And maybe that’s too deep or too awkward, but I think it’s important to take care of each other.

Yeah, and during that process, you know, I had so many people that reached out to me, you know, and then sometimes there’s people in your life when you’re going through something like that that they aren’t sure what to say.

They tend to say it’s kind of like you have a death in the family, and they’re not sure.

They don’t want to say the wrong thing.

So therefore, maybe they don’t say anything or do anything.

And really, you know, I’ve had deaths in the family too more recently.

And yeah, everybody handles things differently.

But for me, I would say, I mean, just holding a bit of a conversation.

And, you know, I don’t remember who said it, but I thought it was brilliant that if they don’t want to talk, okay, they’ll tell you so.

Right.

They’re not going to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you can try.

You can make those attempts.

And just like you said, when you’re checking in on them mental health-wise and so on, if they’re not one who wants to discuss those types of things, they will have their way of letting you know that.

But to just not bring it up in the first place, you’re going to miss an opportunity, I think, not to do that.

So I think that’s a great idea.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just bringing it up on record maybe we can revisit that in some way.

Make another chair position.

Definitely.

Yeah.

The check-in chair.

Yeah.

It’s good.

I think because sometimes maybe we’re so busy and spinning our wheels, like I said, that we’re not checking in on ourselves, so maybe someone else should do it for us and remind us that, wait, maybe I do need a little checkup.

Well, yeah, there’s a lot of momentum and we get caught up in the momentum.

It’s wild how quickly Wednesdays come, you know, in relation to our networking group and that timeframe where it’s like weeks just fly by.

They feel like an hour.

And that allows for many of us to sweep many things under the rug when really we should be thoroughly cleaning it or looking under the rug and just analyzing what’s in the closet and stuff like that, taking a step back.

And really ultimately, it’s a lot of taking a step back.

We were talking about it earlier with ice breaking and networking and approaching people or being vulnerable.

Taking a step back, taking it easy, taking a breath.

Because then there’s a great quote.

I think it comes from The Marines or something like that, but now it’s a mantra in my one-page company manual.

And it’s, slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

Because if you’re calm and collected, then you can analyze what’s going on for the creative process or in business.

If you’re slow and just methodical and smooth about it, then that actually becomes fast because you’re not rushing through it, and then you have to revisit it and fix stuff.

Instead, you just do it once.

I think we can take that also with our mental health.

That’s why meditation is so powerful.

My wife is probably meditating as we speak.

And she’s great at that.

But she continually reminds herself that she needs practice because we all get caught up in it.

Definitely.

Yeah.

But my goodness, we’re an hour in.

Got.

It.

And I ask every guest the similar questions.

To kind of see the same threads, same answers, and also the difference between everybody.

And so I’m going to lay some stuff on you, and we’ll see what you have to say about stuff.

All right, you ready?

I am ready.

All right, we’ll see if you win.

I’m competitive.

I’m ready.

And just to let you know, just because it’s Rapid Fire doesn’t mean that you can’t expand on an answer.

Okay.

But if you can be quick, then you win even harder.

I will try my best.

Just to let you know, Doug Jackson did not do well.

Lawyers tend to be long-winded, but it was still good.

So, number one, what is your biggest source of inspiration?

My biggest source of inspiration is my mom.

She’s no longer living.

She was so strong and independently minded, and I learned so much from her.

Well said.

Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Well, hopefully, she’s here in this, in another dimension.

Do you have a favorite book?

You had mentioned one that you’re reading, but I don’t know if that’s your favorite.

I know another one sticks out.

Well, I will say, like I mentioned, I read a lot of business books, as you know, tons on my shelf, but it’s that one that I read recently by David Goggins.

You can’t hurt me.

Favorite book ever that I’ve read.

Favorite book ever.

That’s powerful.

Yes.

It was clearly a powerful book, and that guy’s a powerful dude, and you’re also powerful, so it makes sense.

Cool.

All right, this is a tough one.

Do you have a favorite musical artist or album that sticks out?

The Eagles.

Oh, listen.

All right.

Well done.

That one’s tough.

It is.

For me, it’s like, well, what day is it?

What am I feeling?

Is it metal or classic?

Yeah, I like to listen to a variety of music, but that’s my favorite group for sure.

You can’t go wrong with the Eagles.

Right on.

I grew up on Eagle Rock Trail, so I think it means something.

Well, you have flown through this.

We have two more.

What is your favorite business tool?

My favorite business tool?

I’m trying to think what that would look like or what that would mean exactly.

Yeah, there’s a lot of different answers that I’ve gotten on this one, because some people think, oh, it’s a software, but there are other tools.

I think my favorite business tool is a blue pen, taking notes on another individual, because I know that I definitely won’t remember everything.

You think in the moment that you’re going to remember things, but I don’t.

I like blue.

I much prefer it over a black pen.

Sometimes I alternate, but blue is my thing.

And that encourages me to ask questions, and it also encourages me to stay on point, because I’ll review those things as we’re going along.

Sure thing.

Yeah, blue pen.

That’s first on the show.

Big preferably.

A big blue pen.

I know what your Christmas present is going to be.

You know, when I taught, I used to encourage students to handwrite notes, because computers were always right in front of us.

But it’s proven that if you handwrite something, it applies it to memory harder.

So my mom was an occupational therapist.

And before she had me, she worked with young kids, and she actually created a hand split and got a patent on it.

So we used to talk about the importance of handwriting, especially when I was having difficulty, because I’m left-handed.

Both my parents are right-handed.

My brother and I are left-handed.

It’s the strangest thing.

But when you’re learning to write, most of my teachers were right-handed.

So just some of the obstacles with that.

But definitely very therapeutic writing.

Much better than even typing or iPad or whatever they’re doing these days.

iPadding.

Exactly.

That’s what they’re doing.

Now you can just speak into it soon and just think it.

Yes.

Scary stuff there.

Yeah.

We got ways to go, but it’s certainly coming.

All right.

Last one.

You’re doing great.

Thank you.

Wonderful job, Michelle.

Trying to be direct on it.

Oh, yeah.

So last one.

How do you define success?

I define success basically that quote that I gave that Reva McIntyre shares in her book.

I think when you can get out of your head and you can take a step back, you can let loose a little bit with everything and everyone around you because then you can see things the way they really are.

You’re not so caught up within and struggling and tight and stressed and all of that and then really live in the moment as if it’s your last.

I’m doing that every day.

I had never done that in my life before.

And I know a lot of other people might define success in a monetary form.

Maybe it’s fame, fortune and all that.

But I think if you look at Hollywood in general, it’s a pretty good indication that that’s not enough.

So it’s got to be something else.

Oh, certainly.

Yeah, richness is a different term than financial.

It’s funny because even Dan being the financial advisor, he’s been on this show, every guest that I’ve had, nobody has defined success by money.

Interesting.

Good.

I’m glad they didn’t.

No, that’s not an answer ever, which is encouraging.

Because I think the world, we all want the same things.

And money is a tool to get, to live and to be.

You have to play the game.

But getting so wrapped up in it, you see millionaires who are very unhappy.

Money is important to be able to function, and it’s obviously vital.

But it is not happiness.

That’s not what happiness is.

No, and I think Reva Nails in her book, she talks about so many neat things in there.

But basically, the idea of being yourself, letting loose a little bit, therefore you’re comfortable around other people, they’re comfortable around you.

And that’s really the opportunity to give to your community as well, to look beyond yourself.

And I don’t know how you could do that if you weren’t doing those things already, because otherwise you’re so stuck inside and what’s going on in your little circle, like literally the circle of you, possibly a couple other people included.

And I think we’re put on this earth for a reason, and I think it’s to be an instrument to help others.

And I don’t think we can do that if we don’t fix ourselves first, you know, get in a position where we can reach out and get that oxygen mask to others.

I knew that was coming.

Yeah, I couldn’t agree with you more.

Also, you know, if you’re in your head and you’re stuck and you’re not able to enjoy the moment, then you’re not, I mean, how are you enjoying life?

And then what is it all about?

Like, then what are you doing?

If you’re not enjoying this, because it’s beautiful.

There’s a lot of junk out there and a lot of noise, but if you just, if you can get away from that or, you know, compartmentalize that and look at the rest, 98% is beautiful.

You know, you go anywhere in the world, there’s great people everywhere from all walks of life.

It’s just the bad apples who ruin it or, you know, bad circumstances.

Our environment’s intense.

It’s very intense and I don’t know how much time you have left.

Oh, you have one minute.

Okay.

I’m just kidding.

Okay.

I can do anything in one minute.

We’re trained to do that in NPI.

Yeah, right.

But I definitely think that there’s seemingly, especially anything you look on, social media, the news, et cetera, you can get caught up in that in the day and just, it’s all doom and gloom and you feel like you’re paralyzed and can’t move forward.

So you gotta watch how much time you spend on those kinds of things.

But I definitely think that everything that you do each day, like I said, it’s a fresh new morning, sunrise every day.

Sometimes the weather is better than others.

Luckily in Florida, it’s very nice where we are.

It’s generally sunny.

But making your own sunshine each day, and it’s a choice to do that and to be that way.

And I think each of us has a choice to do that, no matter what our circumstances are.

We have a choice to get up each morning and appreciate life as a gift and be able to unravel it and give it away to others, you know?

Oh, beautifully said.

Well, you won Rapid Fire.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Everybody wins.

But you did well.

You did particularly well.

I have a couple things to just wrap this up.

Sure.

Number one, I want to know, what are some of your future goals?

What does Michelle Bullard look like in five to ten years?

What does NPI look like?

Oh, gosh.

Our chapter is going to be like a hundred.

You know, with NPI, I actually haven’t thought about that on purpose because I’ve always been such a planner and a perfectionist, and I’m working on that.

And I’m working on living in the moment because I’m having such a fantastic time with it right now.

We’ve had the best year we’ve ever had in terms of bringing on new members into the region.

And also, I’ve had the best time being the executive director that I’ve ever had, and so I’m soaking it in right now.

So I’m not focused, right, this moment on what I’m going to be doing in five or ten years.

I’m sure that in a little while will calm down for me.

Well, hopefully never, but if it does, then I’ll certainly make some plans towards that.

And then in terms of my personal life, I’m looking forward, eventually, I don’t have the time period because it’s not in my control, but I’m looking forward to a new chapter in my life of becoming a grandparent one day.

That I am planning on.

I’ve already planned out the name that I will have.

Not what their names are.

I went through a few different ones, but I finally came down with Grandma Shelley.

You know, not too many people call me Shelley.

My parents call me Shell.

Or Grandma Shell, you know, that’s fine.

I think, yeah, I need you to correct myself.

It wasn’t Shelley, it’s Shell.

And the reason why I thought about that, like I said, my parents used to call me that, and I made a can.

We must have made it in school.

It’s like a holder.

I think it was a juice can of some sort.

And then we had construction paper around it.

And I got a bunch of Shells from the beach, because I lived near the beach side.

And my one that I gave my dad, I remember he had it on his desk for many years, two dad from Shell.

So, you know, just kind of, I think that’s a little easier for kids to pronounce than Michelle, you know.

And I’ve noticed that apparently I have one of those older names, because when I go through drive-throughs or whatever they’re asking your name, most people don’t know how to spell Michelle nowadays.

So I’m like, oh, I’m that, I’m that person now.

But at any rate, that’s something I’m really looking forward to.

I’ve heard great things about being a grandparent, and I have a lot of things that I want to share.

I’ve always loved children, still do.

And one of the best things I ever did was raise my own, you know, three kids with my husband.

And it’s been such a blessing.

And but at the same time, there’s a lot of obstacles and struggles as a parent.

I’m sure you’ve started and gotten into that a bit.

And there’s a lot of pressure, too, because you’re trying to financially balance everything and provide for these kids and so on.

And I think that’s probably a lot of people really like the idea of being a grandparent, because you get a slice of that.

But, you know, you’re not inundated with the ins and outs of all the days and kind of how that goes.

And it’s not as stressful.

Totally, yeah.

And to be able to help my kids at the same time, you know, with parenting and everything that comes up, because I certainly didn’t know how to do everything, but you kind of figure it out as you go along.

And you certainly learn what not to do as you’re going along, you know, with the…

And every kid is different and so on.

So that’s what I’m looking forward to.

Awesome.

I love it.

Right here.

A couple other things.

So I like to ask every guest to…

And you’ve given so much already.

But, you know, if there’s anything very, very specific where it’s a piece of advice, a nugget, where you would have loved to have heard this in the past or as you were on your journey, you know, what’s like one piece of advice that you want to leave someone listening with from you?

Business-wise or just in general?

General.

Could be.

Could be both.

Be kind to yourself.

Give yourself freedom.

And you’ll be amazed at what you can do to help others in the process.

Well said.

Love it.

Love it.

I couldn’t agree more.

We had Jacqueline Lindsay on.

She was episode five, and she founded kindness.org.

We talked all about kindness for that whole hour.

It was a really good one.

And kindness is outward and it’s inward.

Because like putting on your mask, how are you going to be kind to others if you’re mean to yourself?

That’s going to reflect.

Yeah, so that’s enormous.

I think from gauging the world, I do think that there’s a reshifting of people being kind to themselves.

Because then you can be kind to one another and taking care of mental health.

I think there’s a reshifting.

You look at school shootings and suicide rates and things like that.

It starts with how people are treating their own minds and their self-talk and things like that.

If we can help that along in a positive manner, that’s going to ripple across the world to others.

Definitely.

So it’s very powerful.

I love that.

I think anytime you can have an opportunity for communication, and I don’t think there’s ever too much communication that you can have with people, and letting them know about things that have happened even in your own life, like I did recently with my presentation, because probably a lot of people that had never met me before couldn’t imagine that that happened, that I was sitting in a living room for months, staring at the walls.

I don’t know.

But you don’t know what someone’s been through before.

And the other thing is you don’t know what you’re gonna go through, necessarily, in the different decades of your life.

Or tomorrow.

Yes.

Exactly.

So just gathering all that information and getting that from other people and learning, may not be the same exact thing that happens to you in your life, but learning the tools that they use, like you’re asking, you know, how did they get through things and so on, so that possibly we don’t have to reinvent the wheel for ourselves.

I think open dialogue is extremely important.

Couldn’t agree more.

Hence this podcast.

Thank you for doing this.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it’s a pleasure.

I mean, this is work.

It doesn’t seem like it to me.

This is a labor of love, for sure.

It helps with a lot of things, but ultimately, it is what I like to do.

You know, and also it would be cool to look back on this conversation in 20 years.

Or whatever, and be like, whoa.

Well, how do people get ahold of you?

If you want people to connect with you or our organization, where do they go?

So we have a regional website that I usually send people to for NPI.

It’s called npisouthpanellist.com, and you can go right on there, get information about what we do, what we’re about, and I believe my phone number is on there as well, my email and so on.

So you can look me up on the Internet.

I’m pretty easy to find.

And certainly one of the things I will say in the, in the, what the idea of communication is, I’m a big communicator.

So I like to, to the best of my ability, answer those phone calls, texts, and emails as quickly as possible.

I feel that it’s important to get back to others.

So I’m a had it done yesterday kind of person with communication.

So unless I just don’t get it at all, that voicemail is not going to stay in my box for very long.

I can, I can be a testament to that.

Every time I’ve reached out to you, you get back real quick.

Yeah.

Or immediately.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that’s very true.

Yeah.

And plus I don’t want to forget, obviously, either.

That’s another part of it.

But it’s extremely frustrating when you’re trying to get a hold of somebody and you have to make various attempts and then you get to the point where you feel like you’re clearly bothering that person.

So again, I don’t want people to think that.

I tell people I do it all.

I do phone calls, texts, emails, whatever else there is.

Pigeon.

Pigeon.

Face smoke signals, Facebook, Instagram.

I’m on that now.

I actually did my first post on Instagram not too long ago.

So I’m getting in the game.

I’m getting in the game.

Great.

Little by little.

So, but yeah, always happy to communicate with others and always happy to help them with anything, whether it be something they’re wondering about business, topic, et cetera, or whether it’s something personal as well.

I’m transparent and I’m happy to share.

I certainly don’t have all the answers, but I’ve lived a few years and through a few things, so I’m happy to share my experiences.

And if that helps someone else, then I feel fulfilled.

Yeah.

Well, I’m sure you already have helped several people.

I hope that this conversation is helpful.

I appreciate you coming on and being open and communicating further via this medium and giving me your time.

It means a lot.

I’ve enjoyed getting to know you so much and I call you a friend now.

Thank you, Josh.

And it just means a lot, so thank you.

I appreciate you having me on and I know people always say these things, but I think you’ve done such a great job with your new organization, with Sun Leaders, and it’s just really, that was inspirational for me to see, to see someone go and do something of their own and, you know, getting a community of people already, you know, involved and so on.

And that’s just neat for me to see that there’s other things going on in the community, you know.

I mean, NPI is just one way, but I just, I think it’s great because to meet different people, strangers, so to speak, you know, and then they’re not strangers.

And I think it’s great to have different avenues to be able to do that.

So I’m really impressed with what you’ve done with your organization.

And I’m not saying that just because we’re sitting on the podcast, but it’s really true.

And you have a true gift for that.

You’ve asked excellent questions.

And I think the biggest thing is that you’ve always made me feel comfortable.

You know, it’s like just being at home.

And we always love to be around people who make us feel like we’re at home.

So thank you for being that person.

Oh, boy.

Well, that means a ton.

And I look forward to what’s ahead for us.

Thanks so much, Michelle.

Thank you for having me on.

Appreciate it.