25: The 2024 Housing Market & Making Meaningful Mortgages

Mike Marcus. Josh Naaman. Here we are. Thanks for coming on, man.

Yeah, man, my pleasure. I’ve been looking forward to this ever since you presented the idea. Yeah, you’ve been in my life since this started.

Shortly after Naaman Creative was born, we met through our networking group, NPI. Indeed. It’s a great group.

It is. And I was thinking about it. It’s like, you know, it’s going on three years, so that means I’ve almost known you.

Three years. Yeah. Which is fair.

Yeah, it’s quite fair. It’s panned out pretty well. Now, you’re a valued partner of Naaman Creative.

I consider you a friend. A partner. Love that.

And you’re a senior mortgage advisor at guaranteed rate. That’s still your title. Yeah, it is indeed.

That’s what they like to call me. Yeah. And I try to listen.

You’re a senior. Very young senior. Very young senior.

And you’re a new dad. New dad. So I wanted to hit all the highlights.

Yeah, man, that’s awesome. You got a lot going on. You’re a good man.

I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you and like being around you. You know, there’s a lot of good people in our group and I very much resonate with you. Like I said, I feel the same.

Yeah, it’s been a cool journey the past few years, and I’m sure we’ve got many more to come, right? Oh, certainly. I’m not looking to stop anytime soon, that’s for sure. Nah, man, you’re doing big things.

I know you caught onto it the one time I made mention, like, the Naaman Creative is going to be a household name. I believe that, man. Just watching you grow with the rapid pace you have and doing this podcast and the amount of traction that you’ve gotten with it so far in such a short time is.

It’s. It’s a lot to be proud of. That’s cool, man.

Well, that means a lot that did. When you said that day at the meeting, it definitely stuck with me. And I didn’t really thought about, like, the brand like that, but it’s cool to see your eyes.

So that was. It’s awesome to get that kind of feedback in that group. You know, you’re surrounded by people who see things at a high level like you, but have a different perspective on it.

And we can uplift each other every week. Right. It’s such a special thing.

There’s so much more than the referrals I always tell people. Indeed. And.

Yeah, so it’s. I just. I’m very grateful to have connected with you.

And here we are. Likewise, man. It’s been awesome.

Thanks for having me again, though. Yeah. Well, I wanted to talk to you.

The mortgage industry is quite interesting right now. Like, I mean, people are aware of what’s going on in housing, but I mean, I feel like land and homes, you know, it’s like one thing in life that people have to have. And so whenever there are movements or changes or things that are happening, it shakes up.

And it’s noticed more than, like, websites. Well, not everybody needs a website to live, so it doesn’t. Or a podcast or whatever it is.

You know what I mean? So it’s not as big of a deal, but you’re in an industry where it’s like, everybody should have a home, you know, and most people do, and that’s a big deal. I don’t know how much you reflect on that. Yeah.

I mean, often when you think about just the realism of this is the place where you and your family usually. Right, or even single people, but that’s like your safe space, your sanctuary, the place you rest your head at night and the place you start your day every morning. It’s a big deal to me to be involved in that type of activity because it is so meaningful to so many different people, whether it’s their 10th home, their first home, something in between.

Each transaction has different elements of something special in that, that I find fulfillment in. Helping those other guys, those other women, those kids, whatever it is, get into that home. Or, you know, sometimes it’s.

It’s kind of a. Can be a tumultuous situation. Right.

For example, like divorce, you know, maybe, you know, think tensions are rough, you know, and there’s a lot of other things going on in the background. So in those scenarios, it’s like, hey, let’s just get to the closing table. It’s just another house.

We’re going to move along and start a new chapter. Right. But.

Right, like I said earlier, it’s. There’s something special in every transaction. I really.

I really love that element of it. Yeah, well, it’s cool to hear that you take it seriously, and it doesn’t really surprise me because of your character. Sure.

Because I got to know you. That means a lot. It’s a big deal.

Also, it’s. People’s pretty much their biggest investment, unless they’re buying a business or a building commercially. But the house, there’s not much more expensive than a house, especially these days.

Um, it’s. It’s a wild thing and it isn’t. It’s so important to be a part of, like, I’ve gone through.

I bought a condo with my wife. That was our first, like, purchase after a, uh, an apartment. And that was in Indiana, and it was like $76,000.

And I think we sold it for, like, 80 or something. Right, right. But it was like, you know, that was actually bigger than our house right now.

Was it really huge footprint. Four bedrooms. Oh, wow.

It was like, yeah, it was really cool. And had, like, two balconies on a. On a pond.

Sounds awesome. It was cool for, you know, being in Indianapolis. I could only imagine putting that smack dab in the middle of downtown St. Pete and what that price tag would look like.

Current day value. What would you say? Oof. Four bedrooms, two balconies.

Four bedrooms, two balconies. I mean, you know, in the right building, you’re multi million, right? We’re talking probably $100,000. Yeah.

Yeah. What a time to be alive. Oh, yeah.

Well, I mean, we bought our house, then our next one was, you know, here in Florida. Moved to Florida in Largo. And I don’t know if I should talk numbers.

It’s. It was more than that, but a reasonable price for the salary that I was at coming down here. Now, our.

I think the last time I looked, our house has increased 75% in value since 2018, which is. It’s cool because I’m like, wow, look at the equity. Look at the value that we own.

Right. But at the same time, it’s like, well, we sell it. We’re.

We’re buying into that same market. That’s right. Pretty much.

We’re going to. We’re going to move a little north and get out so that we can make our dollar go a little further. And we’re okay with driving.

We want a little more land, but it’s still such an interesting thing. We’re kind of diving into the weeds because I, like, I wanted to set up, like, how did you become a mortgage professional before I dived into some of these details so that we could have some context on. First off, what.

What draws someone to, you know, be in the mortgage industry? Did you always, were you always fascinated with it? Did you want to be something else and something tugged you into this? You know, it’s funny. So it’s just simply like a numbers thing coupled with problem solving and helping others, not necessarily in that order. It’s.

Looking back on my childhood, there was never a time in my life where I was like, I wanna be a banker. Like, come on, you know, no offense to bankers out there, but that’s just not me. I’m not the guy in the suit, the stuffy, this, that or the other, like, and as a youngster, like, you never would have imagined how a mortgage, like, what does that word even mean? Or.

No, my parents, they just have this house and let me live in it, right? I think I remember from like, it was just a word in monopoly and you had really not much context there of like, what that really meant. And I’ll be honest, I mean, growing up, even as a teenager in my early twenties and whatnot, I didn’t buy my first house until mid thirties, right? And so I still had a vague concept of what that looked like, but it wasn’t anything that I was drawn to by any means of what got me into t
business was really a friend that has known me for a long time, had a good idea of what my skillset was. And at the time I was working for a startup company here in St. Pete that unfortunately was not doing so hot.

It had very little funds left. We could kind of see the end of the road. They weren’t able to get a product to market quick enough to kind of save things.

And so was that in the mortgage industry? No. So something completely different. But I was on the finance side of that business, so I was the one pretty intimately aware of like, hey, if we continue at such and such a burn rate, our money is going to run dry.

X date on the calendar, right? And I brought to their attention, they’re like, oh, no, no, everything’s going to be fine. We’re, we’re going to start selling this stuff at any moment now. And I’m like, well, I, easier said than done, I believe in you guys.

But we also said that a year ago and here we are, right? And so to make a long story short, I needed to make a move before the ship sank. And my friend kept, had been telling me for, gosh, probably a year prior, every now and again, come on, man, just come check it out. I think you’d be really great.

It’s not what you think it is. And so I hung out at their office for a day and kind of met the branch manager and, you know, some of the other folks that work there and saw what the day to day looked like, listened to some of the phone calls they made and was like, oh, this is actually nothing of what I thought it might be. This is pretty cool.

You know, you have people calling you and they’re genuinely just thrilled when you’re like, hey, I have your pre approval letter ready. Oh, I bet. I’m calling your realtor next, blah, blah, blah.

And they’re like jumping for joy, right? Like, oh, we can’t wait. We found this house last week and still on the market. We want to run right out and, you know, try to make this happen.

Yeah. You know, all that sort of stuff. And it’s like, oh, wow, that’s.

That’s pretty awesome. Such a feel good thing. Totally.

And, uh, it’s weird. I don’t really get that with websites. Some people are like, awesome.

Thanks. And other people are like, all right, back to work. Right? It’s like 5 seconds of celebration and then, you know.

All right, what’s next? Yeah, you know, it’s interesting you bring that up. I had a client recently close a loan with me, and that’s kind of how it was at the end, really. Just like, okay, great.

Yeah, no, so I closed, I signed and gave him a bunch of money and. All right, well, thanks for everything. Bye bye.

Like, just emotionless, you know? Yeah. Which is fine. Sure.

Yeah. Would you say it’s majority of the time, though, people are jazzed about it. Oh, totally.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And this for more context, like, this guy was a seasoned. It was his primary residence and everything, but I was gonna say his fifth home, early thirties.

Like, he’s off to a great start. You know, build some equity, reinvent sells, reinvest into a little bit more of a property and so on. So what’s the biggest mortgage you’ve ever approved? Oh, always one of my favorite questions.

And if you don’t mind me taking the liberty to give you the smallest. Oh, please. So we’ll do both.

We got time. The biggest one was a little over 2 million of the loan amount itself. Yep.

I was like, gulp. When I looked at that, that monthly payment. But, um, you know, wealthy family, uh, they, you know, by no stretch, like, they could afford it very handsomely.

Right. Easily. Sure.

And it was a cool process because at that level, it does require certain other criteria, as you can imagine. Right. A lot of money, a little bit more risk.

Uh huh. Uh, two appraisals were needed, just as an example, you know, so just learning what it took to be able to go through the steps of a, you know, a bigger loan like that. It was a pretty neat experience.

Pretty neat experience. So, yeah, a little over 2 million was the largest one. That was in 2022.

And then I think it was late last year, maybe November of 23. I did one for around 40,000. Is that like one of the smaller ones? The smallest? Yeah, it was like 39 or 40,000 right in that area.

And the sweetest woman in the entire world. I actually just gave her a call a week or so ago and caught up with her and made sure everything is going good. Oh, cool.

To make a long story short, she had been told no by another lender. And it wasn’t no to qualification, it was no to that loan isn’t big enough for us. And yeah, man, I just was like 40 kids.

Yeah. And like, you know, listen, I’m respecting privacy, but I think it’s okay to at least say this part because there’s no names. Sure.

Older woman, lived alone, fixed income, retired. Right. Had a nice nest egg from a property she had sold elsewhere.

So a nice, you know, big down payment. But she needed a loan for 40,000 to make the purchase happened. She was told by two different lenders, as a matter of fact, that that’s not enough of a loan.

I need you to put less money down. She said, well look, I only make x dollars per month, so I need my monthly payment to be right here for me to feel comfortable. Yeah.

And yeah, I was introduced to her and I said, I don’t care if it’s ten grand, whatever we take, let’s do it. Nice. That’s special.

It was cool. You made it happen for her. Yeah.

And she was eternally grateful. Sent her sister to me as a referral, which I thought was really cool. That’s great.

Yeah. Doesn’t surprise me. Like once you do that, like go, once you make an impression and do the job well, the referrals roll in.

Totally. Yeah, yeah. It’s just about the relationship, you know, I like to call it marketing through execution.

Oh, I love that. So, you know, we just do good work and that in itself is a form of marketing. Right.

Cause marketing such this, it’s not specific. There’s so many forms of marketing and you’re getting marketed to in all sorts of ways that you wouldn’t even think about. But people have planned that form of marketing.

But you know, execution and the way you serve people and treat people that I feel like is near the top. Definitely. I could have the coolest website or a neat social media campaign or graphics or brand or this or that, but if I’m a total dick and I don’t care about you, well, that’s not going to go well.

No, not at all. It’s not far. And that’s the thing, man.

I think you hit on it is like being service forward, always in any, you know, career aspect that you’re in, whether it’s Naaman Creative or, you know, my mortgage business, for example, it’s, you’re always serving others to whatever degree that looks like. And so if you always maintain the attitude in my mind of, like, how can I meet or exceed expectations? Not how can I bring a paycheck into my pocket, or how can I somehow convince someone that they should refer their friends or family? Well, it’s not about the convincing. Your work should convince them.

Your service should do that. Yeah, in a way. You shouldn’t have to ask because you do such a good job and they’re so happy with you that they feel compelled to be like, wow, I want to tell other people about this awesome experience I had over here at aiming creative.

Right, right. Yeah. That’s the way I look at, you know, doing mortgages for someone is like, oh, man, last time I got a house, I was, like, stressed.

This underwriting stuff, you know, this, that and the other. I was pulling my hair out, and you made it so much easier. Why can’t it just be like that? Yeah.

Like, those are the things that I love to hear. Makes my world go round. And in an industry that, I mean, certain industries don’t have as much pizzazz.

And, like, you know, even what has been uncovered just in this short conversation already is like, that there’s a lot more to what’s behind what a mortgage is a part of, and that you keep the focus on that, and it’s not as dry, if you will. You know, like, there’s a lot of meaning there, and it’s a necessary part. There’s very few of us who, like, yep, here’s half a mil for a house.

Cash. Yeah. Who’s got that laying around under the floorboards? You know, it takes a lot of drugs for that.

That’s right. Wait. Oops.

Yeah. No, speaking of, are they kicking in yet? They’re kicking in. All right.

Great. The Kirkland is great. So we talked about a cool moment, taking care of that lady, and I’m sure there are others.

I also like to kind of highlight low lights. What’s, like, one of the most challenging mortgage situations that you were in, where you were just like, this is tough, but you got through it. So you’ve bought and sold homes in the past.

Yeah. So maybe this happened to you before. I don’t know.

But as you could imagine, a delay on the closing day. Right? Like, meaning, hey, tomorrow we’re supposed to close. You’re kind of finding out maybe within a few days or the day before.

Let’s say it’s not going to happen. Not only is it not going to happen, but it can’t happen for, like, maybe a couple weeks. I mean, that can send some people buy or sell or, like, you know, on either side of the transaction.

Like, you’re going to be spinning in circles sometimes. Angry. Yeah.

I mean, I’ve had people furious. Right? Yeah. And so this one in particular transaction was for a gentleman.

That was because he would be called a military contractor, not like a sworn officer in one of the. Right. In the army, let’s say.

But he contracted through a private company, but was living on a military base. So he had come home. He was set to be home here in Florida for quite a while, buying this home for him and his family.

And honestly, like, his finances, his paperwork. Military guy, right? So, like, so organized. It made my job really easy, which was great.

Which was great. Yeah. So everything was like, I’d pick up the phone, make my update calls.

Hey, guys, you know, we got through initial underwriting. Everything’s cool. They’re just looking for a couple of updated pay stubs and run of the mill thing.

So we’ve got another week or so to go till closing. Everything looks like it’s very smooth. The appraisal came back, no issues there, blah, blah, blah, like all good stuff.

And I give the guy a call, I don’t know, maybe a week before closing, four or five days, what have you, and just kind of setting the stage again. I talk about it in the beginning, but, hey, just as a reminder, closing date is such and such, you need to bring two forms of id. Here’s the address to the title company.

And real quickly, he interrupts me, he goes, oh, I’m in Kosovo. Yeah. I said, like, the country.

And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I just got here, dude. And I’m. Yeah, exactly, dude.

I’m like, okay, so you’ll. You’ll be back. Let’s say it’s on the fifth.

You’ll be back on the fifth, right? Oh, no, I don’t come home for, like, seven months. Oh. And I’m like, oh, my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. Breathe. Okay, so you didn’t think to maybe share this information or give me a little bit of, oh, well, can’t we just.

You email me the documents. I’ll print them out, scan them, send them back. Like, I’m so sorry, man.

This doesn’t work that way. Right? For documents like these, right? Yeah, it’s a big deal. Like, we need to have a notary and all this stuff, right? Yeah, we went round and round in circles as to what can we do.

And this is a few years ago. Nowadays, we do have a remote online notary system they’ve nicknamed Ron. It’s pretty cool, Ron, but it’s like a video thing, and blah, blah, blah.

Makes remote closings possible. Makes sense. Ron.

Pre Ron. Yeah, yeah. And anyways, I call the listing agent, letting him know after I talked to this guy, the buyer’s agent, and they’re like, oh, my gosh, you have to call the listing agent because this guy has been asking me for updates every day.

Like, hey, we’re closing on time, right? We’re closing on time, right? Over and over. I’ve assured him ten ways from Sunday. Yes.

And now all of a sudden, you’re telling me, no, he’s like, I can’t. I can’t be the bearer of bad news. No problem.

I’ll give the guy a call. So anyways, I reached out, I explained the situation, and to make a very long story short, what we ended up finding out was that on the military base in which he was working, there was a notary. And so I was able to coordinate with the management at my company, the title company, everybody kind of the same level there.

We were able to set up a secure email that goes to the notary. They were able to print the documents out on site. The notary was able to fully notarize them, and I think we found DHL as the carrier, and they were able to actually overnight this envelope of closing documents from a military base in Kosovo back to a title company here in St. Pete.

Overnight. Overnight. Wild.

I don’t really recall the cost, mainly because it was painful to look at, but, buddy, it was expensive for that little shipment. My goodness. But it got the deal done, and one of the coolest parts for me, and I mean this with, like, all the humility in the world, right? I just thought it was really neat, the listing agent, when all this was the dust settled, and we got the official like, hey, we’re closed.

We’re funded, right? Everything is done. He calls me up and he goes, man, I never in a million years thought you could pull that off. I was just letting you do your thing because you sounded confident, but I never thought it would go this way.

Like, congratulations. This is one of the coolest transactions I’ve been a part of. From now on, you’re my guy.

Boom. And we work together still to this day. That was probably six years ago.

Wow. That’s huge. That’s cool.

Yeah. I mean, you got something that a lot of people would have written off. It seems like that’s a thread through this conversation already.

Two people turning down that woman for 40k. Right. You.

You know how many other mortgage advisors or, you know, people would have just said, oh, that’s going to be too much work. Right, sorry. We just wait seven months, you know.

Yep. That’s interesting. I would have thought, oh, we got him a power of attorney or something.

Like, then he, like, you know, you can just tell someone, have someone sign in your behalf and all that. Yeah. Yeah.

Was that not a consideration? It was same or similar issue. Those need to be notarized and executed and inked and everything else. So with them already being there, we’re pretty much in the same spot.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Good story. I wasn’t sure what to expect on some of these things. That’s why I was excited about this, because, I don’t know, you know, like, it’s cool because also everybody can relate, you know, like, most people have lived in a house, I sure hope, you know, and.

And I don’t know. That might be something that I’d like to discuss with you, which is, like, do you see a way to help people who are homeless in the future? Are there programs that can get people into homes, especially now, moving down here? If it was in the climate that it is now, I don’t know if we would have been able to. We wouldn’t have been able to buy a home, and so.

But luckily, we have a home right now, and we’re trying to buy a home. And the other week, you ran our numbers and very nicely gave us the information that my salary needs to increase for what we’re looking for, which is. Makes sense.

Yeah. I mean, booming housing market, it’s. It’s hard to keep up with.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, like, do you.

Are you aware of any particular efforts to, you know, help homeless people? So I’ve been privy to a couple conversations that folks, I guess, go, and they’re a little bit more involved than I am with city council and things of that nature. But short answer. Yes.

I don’t have a high level of detail on that, but I have heard some rumors of, like, some older apartment complexes that have kind of fallen by the wayside and become vacant. They were out for sale and that there were some programs introduced to. I honestly don’t remember if it was specifically the city of St. Pete or maybe Pinellas county in general about getting a funding, group funding kind of a thing together to buy some of these, repurpose and revamp them for that type of housing.
Oh, that’s cool. Well, that seems popular anyways, just like, commercially, regardless of the homeless is. I’ve seen, I can’t remember, but I came across someone who was telling me, yeah, I, you know, I invested, like 20K or something to be, like, one of many investors in this property to get this trickle of passive revenue of a property.

Yeah. And the same crowd financing’s become a big thing. Yeah.

Do you guys do. Do you guys work on those kind of things? We don’t. They’re all usually private funds that are held, but, yeah, some of them have been very, like, philanthropic.

Right. And trying to help those that either have no income or very little income and otherwise wouldn’t be able to afford a home. We are hugely involved with the VA.

Great. So as a company, we work very closely with a number of organizations to better assist the veterans and make sure that. And on the lending side of things, they’re getting arguably the most competitive rate, number one.

But also, like, that full on service of like, hey, you guys may never have lived in this part of the country ever. We’re well connected with different realtors, home inspectors, insurance agents. You know, we’re happy to pass these referrals to you so that you can, you know, find some folks that we’ve worked with in the past, have good relationships with whom we know, like, and trust.

Yeah. You know, different stuff like that. That’s great.

Yeah. It’s proven to be really nicely successful. And I’m sure you’ve heard some stuff out there about the hometown Heroes program that we do as ringing a bell.

Yeah. The state of Florida. So that’s money appropriated by the state for a first time homebuyer can be someone moving to Florida, which I think is super cool because there are some other programs that require you to prove residency prior to approval, which, as you can imagine, like yourself moving from Indiana to Florida, it’s like, well, I’m trying to become a resident.

You know what I mean? Yeah. What came first, the chicken or the egg? So it gets tough, right. To be able to kind of bridge that gap.

And I was really proud of Florida and finding a way that says simply, hey, if you work for a Florida based company and you’re moving into our state and you’re a first time home buyer, here’s some money. Yeah, of course, qualifications, you know, some income limits and things, because it is, of course, designed to help those that need the help. You know, definitely that’s great.

Unfortunately, the wealthy ones need to spend some money, but that’s okay, too. Well, they got the money, so it works out. Yeah, but that’s a really great program.

The city of St. Petersburg specifically has an awesome first time homebuyer program. They were giving grants up to $60,000, which is a huge number. A grant.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Pinellas county, same thing for lower income households, was giving up to 75,000. And if you stay in the home. Right.

Pay your loan off, 30 years, what have you, that money is not even paid back. Wow. Of course, if you turn around and circumstances change, you have to sell and relocate or whatever.

The money goes back to the fund. The next person in need can be helped out as well. That makes sense.

Yeah. But still, awesome programs. You know, kind of helping those people out that, like you said, in this housing market right now, with all of the, you know, rising prices over the last few years, makes it pretty hard to buy your first home.

Yeah. So these programs kind of make it a lot easier, more attainable, and that’s fantastic. At least there’s, you know, progress and.

And things in place to at least help totally, you know, break down those walls. I also saw a post recently. I think it was out in Tampa, where someone built, like, a little commune of tiny homes.

Just little, tiny sheds that was like. It’s like a one bedroom, you know, like a studio apartment would be, but in a tiny home. That’s cool.

And it was, like, 30 of them. Yeah. And I thought that was really cool, because, first off, I’ve seen some bad ass tiny homes.

Oh, dude. They do wild stuff with them. So cool.

They’re so cool. And so places I would love. Yeah.

My wife. Better than the street. Yeah.

She’s like, wait, we just had a baby, and now we are in a tiny home. What happened? But, yeah, no, they’re. They’re outfitted like you wouldn’t believe.

Yeah. And I was watching. Oh, gosh.

There’s this show that I just binged. It’s, like, about cool homes, and there were several on there where people. And it’s becoming really, really popular.

Shipping containers. Yep. People just buy, like, two or three shipping containers, stack them, and then cut them and repurpose them as the bones of the building.

And those turn out super cool. Super cool. Super cool.

It might have been the same show. I saw something where people got into some really crazy geometry with them, so some were tilted on their end. One was even in, like, a v type shape.

Whoa. And they put one through the center of it kind of hard to wrap your mind around, even, like, you know, the engineering of it. Like, how’d you get there? To figure out that it would all be structurally, but it was.

The place was built, like, you know, a tank, but it was a whole bunch of those, you know, shipping containers, all cut and welded to make one. It’s like a big piece of art, honestly. Totally.

Oh, yeah. It was amazing. That’s what draws me to it, is, like, they inherently have a different feel than, like, a traditional home because of the shape that you’re kind of forced to work with.

But there’s something very cool and neat and special about that. Totally. And they’re big, and I love that.

Like, you’re repurposing a thing that otherwise. Otherwise would have. It’s just like, rot or rust.

Rust, yeah. And I think that’s gonna be a lot more popular. I don’t know why, but for a long time, I’ve kind of been not obsessed with trash, but, like, fascinated with trash, because I’m always like, what can we do with our trash? You know, like, can we use trash to build, you know, in.

You know, build things and. And use them in different ways, obviously. Like recycling.

We do that and things like that. But, you know, I just, like, I swear I have it weekly, and especially now. My daughter loves when the garbage truck comes by.

She’s like, garbage truck? And then we go out there and wave. And she waves. They wave back.

It’s hilarious. But it gets me thinking, you know, man, where does all that trash go? And I know to an extent, but it’s like, you know, what are we? It’s just an interesting realm that I’d like to explore more whenever I have capital, because I like to. I don’t know.

I’m just a geek like that, but I also fascinated with, like, 3d printing homes. I don’t know if you’ve seen the 3d printed concrete homes. Pretty wild, man.

Yeah. Have you ever? Domes are really, really interesting looking. Yeah, it’s cool.

And they do it, like, a day, right in the domes. They, like, pour concrete over, like, a balloon, and then they inflate the balloon. So cool.

Have you ever done a loan for, like, a tiny home, a shipping container home, or a 3d printed house? I have not, but I would love to. I think that would be such a cool experience. All right, anybody out there? Yeah.

Right? We’ll find one, or it’s gonna be mine, right? You know, we’re trying to figure out where we break ground, Josh. Well, technically, we don’t have to. We just put the ground.

That’s right. Oh, man, that’s cool. It’s a fascinating, like, thing, you know, homes, there’s so much goes on with them and you could do so much with them.

And, like, when I’ve traveled a lot and what’s also cool to see is what people do with limited space. Like, my wife’s from Turkey, and you go to apartment buildings and you go into their kitchen and you go, this feels very small, really thin. You know, the table is up against the wall, and like four people get around this table that’s like shoved into an already small kitchen.

You’re like, this is interesting. But they’ve got everything they need. It’s already in this kitchen and it’s just very interesting.

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Okay, crystal ball, let’s do it. What, what’s going to happen with the housing industry and rates? What, what’s your. I know you can’t up and down.

No. So, I mean, you know, the general consensus has been when will the rates get cut? Like, yeah, we, to the point of, I think as a, let’s just say a community in the real estate mortgage finance kind of realm. Right.

Everyone is just constantly like, so have they gone down yet? Have they gone down yet? You know, like just watching that clock. Right. That from my understanding, though, is actually they’re low right now.

They are to historically. Oh, absolutely. So.

Well, I mean, not to get off on a whole tangent, but we were enormously spoiled by the abnormally low rates after the pandemic. And so I think that people very, I don’t want to say the word greed. I’m sure there’s plenty of that out there.

I just try to not focus on the negative aspects. Right. But people took advantage where they were allowed to, which is fine.

Listen, I’m one of them, too. I mean, we bought our home during arguably the lowest interest rate environment I may see in my lifetime. Right.

After a quick increase as property values also increased. Right. So higher rates and higher price tags all at the same time.

At the same time. Right. I think because of what went on post pandemic and whatnot, that sharp, immediate decline.

People are like, well, something is just gonna make the government or the powers that be, whatever, bring the rates lower again. Cause I want lower rates, of course. Not how it works, unfortunately.

All that being said, like the crystal ball thing, I do imagine that the federal government, the Federal Reserve specifically, will start cutting the rates before the end of this year, slightly. That seems to be on the horizon. It’s been talked about a lot.

They did talk about potentially doing it in spring. Obviously, that’s come and gone with nothing. Here we are in summer, again, nothing.

They’re looking into maybe in the fall or the wintertime doing that, and I think they probably will. Then you have an election that’s going to corrupt right in the flow. That’s the big question mark for a lot of folks, myself included, is like, what type of influence is that going to have over the real estate and mortgage markets and the democratic markets? Just.

Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah, yeah.

Democracy. Democracy. Yeah.

That whole thing. Yeah. It’ll be really interesting to watch, needless to say.

But I do think that whether it’s before the end of this year or early next, that we should see some slightly lower rates. I. Okay, never say never. I don’t think that we’re gonna see those crazy 2%, 3% kind of a thing.

Because truthfully, it wasn’t good for housing. I was just gonna say because I listened to the David Pakman show. Yeah, he’s great.

Yeah. You like? Oh, okay. I’ve heard a couple of them.

He’s just very well spoken and like, straight to the point and like, he leans one way, but he says it how it is, as far as the news, which I really appreciate, as far as an independent journalism, but he’s also a really good finance guy. Totally. From what I’ve learned, and I’ve learned from him, that it’s actually not a bad thing to have.

We need to have inflation. We do. You know, it’s just not too much and not too little.

Like there’s a, there’s a managing that. Exactly. There’s a healthy inflation.

I, I imagine the same where you don’t want mortgage rates to be way too low, but obviously we don’t want them too high. It’s like, where’s that sweet spot? Like the three bears? You know, the three bears are poor. I mean, it’s like anything else, right? I mean, just to take a stab at something wildly different than this, it’s like blood pressure and your health.

Yeah. Oh, I gotta keep my blood pressure low. Can’t go too high.

Well, shoot, if it goes too low, you’re gonna have a whole new set of problems. Right. So it’s about managing it in that, like you said, I love it.

Sweet spot. And I think that because of that ultra low interest rate environment where, I mean, gosh, so many millions and millions, right? People across our country either purchased or refinanced or both, maybe multiple properties. And now they’re looking at, what would this cost me on a monthly basis if I got rid of this 3% rate and replaced it with a six or a 7% rate? And they go, well, probably just stay right here.

A lot of them. Yeah, a lot of them. And I think that’s created a very different environment than what we’ve been used to in the past, because traditionally, when rates change due to inflation or whatever other things may be going, it’s a softer curve, it’s a more gradual change.

This was a hyper, very quick, and very drastic change. So they fell. They were down really, really low, and then all of a sudden, they shot up.

And they shot up really pretty strongly. So who’s the dude? It was hard to keep a hold of what to do on, like, the consumer side of things, right. I mean, it was obvious, hey, news flash, rates are 0%, right? The overnight banking rate, but not the mortgage rate.

Those were 3%, let’s say, for a mortgage. Yeah. So everybody was like, well, shoot, let’s go buy another house or refinance our current house or both.

And it did help many, you know, many, many people get into a really good situation, but now they’re, some of them, feeling stuck. You know, I’ve talked to a couple clients of mine who said, well, gosh, we really wanted to move to another area or even another neighborhood closer to where my kids go to school or closer to the grandparents or whatever the case may be, the motivation there. And they said, we can’t.

Because not only did the house that we were looking at two years ago drastically go up in price, the rate for the mortgage is double what we pay. We just can’t afford that. I feel like I’m one of those clients.

We just had this conversation not more than a month ago where it’s like, we would move tomorrow. Like, it sucks we found a house that we love and. But can’t move on it.

You know, I’m working hard, so we’ll get there. You’ll get there, you know. Yeah, it does change, and that that affects the market in general.

Like, we have a realtor in our group, and she’s very hungry right now for closings compared to where business is unusually slow. Yeah. And that, that does affect it.

I’m curious. Obviously, it’s not few people who are like, okay, today the rates are high. Now it’s like, how does that happen? What determines the rates? So it’s an economy in and of itself.

Mortgage backed securities. Right. And so these loans that are written by people like myself who are loan officers, loan originators, if you’ve seen the movie the big short, it’s a bad and ugly example of what I’m talking about, but it does at least show the flow of Joe.

Homeowner buys the home for him and his family, and that mortgage is sold to, let’s say, fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Those are the two federal agencies that control conventional loans. And those get packaged in with a bunch of other loans into a mortgage backed security, which sometimes the US treasury is buying.

It’s sold on the secondary market. And there’s these investors that are throwing around billions and trillions of dollars to invest long term in the growth of these securities. Right.

That is crazy. It is. To think about.

There’s so many niche aspects of all the little things that go on within that economy that honestly, it’s a lot. We could have a whole other podcast just to talk about that stuff. I’d love to.

Yeah. It makes my head spin and, and I’m. Listen, I’ll be the first to say, like, I’m not the resident expert necessarily.

I know enough maybe just to get me in trouble, but I know so much more than the average, like me, like, the amount that, you know, like what you just spoke about. I don’t. I’ve heard that maybe twice and thought about it and they go, okay.

And I can’t really think about it anymore because first off, it’s a weird concept. Right? Like, also, I’ve never even thought about having that much money or know anybody with that much money to be pulling the strings at that level. Something very interesting about that whole realm.

Yeah. Well, the biggest influences are on US treasury, right? Like the Federal Reserve. They’ve bought and sold the mortgage backed securities and things.

They keep them for however long they determine to be kept. They sell them off when they see fit and that it’s hugely influential because again, we’re talking about billions and trillions of dollars moving from one place to the next. So, yeah, it’s hard to think about.

It is. And it affects everybody. Right.

I don’t know, maybe along these lines, something came across my mind, but we don’t have to go there. Mortgages or loans in general that people have, that you’re just like, that you maybe hear often that people are wrong about. Hands down, in my opinion, the biggest misconception I get it often is that there is, and I mean this with the utmost respect to my profession.

Right. I’ll just preface by saying that, but like that, there’s creative logic or compassionate understanding that goes into the raw approval or guidelines, if you will, of what makes a mortgage approved versus not. I’ll give you an example.

First time homebuyer was referred to me not long ago. They gave me a call and they said, listen, I inherited a nice healthy amount of money. Want to buy my first home.

I’ve got a good job, got good income. The only problem is, in my early twenties, I was not great at managing my money. Long story short, defaulted on a car, some credit cards.

So my credit scores are, let’s say I’m still working on the credit scores strong. And I said, okay, we’ll quantify that. Like, what number do you think? Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac both say that a borrower must have a credit score of 620 to get approved for a conventional loan, no matter what.

No matter what. There are other loans out there that will accept a lower score. But let’s just say for the argument’s sake, that’s what we’re looking at.

I could have millions of dollars, but my credit score, and I think the big misconception is, well, but I have all this money, can I use that as my down payment? And I really only need a small fraction, right. 20, 30% of the home’s value to get a mortgage. Well, unfortunately, one doesn’t take the place of the next.

Right. Meaning all the money in the bank doesn’t make your low credit score become a qualifying credit score. Now, pre housing market crash, 2007, eight, what have you.

Different things were going on there, right. But for good reason. As you can imagine, a lot of guidance and guidelines, excuse me, were put into place that there are lines that cant be crossed and thats for a reason.

And its because the housing market, like you said earlier, we depend on it as a nation, economically speaking, and the strength and security that is part of a lot of foundational stuff in the banking industry. Right. And so if you don’t follow those guidelines and you start saying, well, hey, because this person had a bunch of, you know, money recently and this, that and the other.

Let’s just, let’s let this one slide. Yeah, it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work that way because it, right, because it’s like erode the foundation of.

Correct the system that makes it safe and secure. You get it. You get it.

So the misconception is just that. And so maybe somebody might say, but my credit score is so high and I know I have a lot of debt and I know my income might not be at the level that they want or expect for me to be able to buy this house, but I quote, I promise I can afford it. But again, having a high credit score.

Yes. That’s awesome. That’s going to get you a very competitive interest rate, yada, yada.

However, it doesn’t take the place or supersede what those guidelines allow or don’t allow. Right. Yeah.

So, yeah, because, like, my credit score score is great, but I need to prove more income. Right. Because, you know, finally I’m getting my business profitable after three and a half years.

But I can’t be like, hey, you know, you can see the trend, right? Yeah, yeah. But I have to prove it. You know, and for my w two specifically.

Yeah, that’s it. You know, in my world, things are just so binary in that sense. And I think people often believe that there’s judgment or like a judgment call being made one way or the other.

It’s, it’s simply not. Yeah. You’re either, you know, on this side of that proverbial line drawn in the sand or you’re on the other.

And no disrespect to either side. It just. The numbers are the numbers, right? Yeah, yeah.

So we, we adhere to those guidelines to make sure, like you said, to maintain the integrity of the system there. Right. Yeah.

You have to. You do. Yeah.

And, you know, it was just like, I’m thinking about, like, my experience when I taught and I was grading and, you know, someone would be on the verge of a d minus or an f, but I had to, I had to grade with the exact same fairness that I did that everybody else. Sure. And sometimes I would want to, like, give an extra point just to bring it up.

Yeah. You know, okay, maybe it was one point I would. But ultimately, there was a line where I couldn’t, I couldn’t sway too much because that’s not fair to everybody else.

And it would erode a, my students confidence in how I’m grading them in comparison to everybody else and what’s fair. And so, like, that was my least favorite part of teaching. Oh, I can only imagine.

And I imagine most people feel that because grades sucked, but at the end of the day you have to do it, and it’s important, but it was so it had to be dry. I had to kind of take emotion out of it. And it’s kind of weird thinking about that with the creative industry because, you know, it’s like, is that logo good? But there were a lot more parameters.

Mostly on the grade was, did you do phase one on time, and did you work hard, and did you prove. Did you participate in the critique? Sure. And there were still metrics that I was like, well, this person did not care, and they didn’t turn in work on time.

And so there were metrics there that I kind of had to assign numbers to, otherwise it would erode if I just was like, you get an a, and I feel like you get a b. What? Not right. I thought I was going to teach full time, just teaching in a different way these days, teaching people about mortgages through my buddy.

That’s right. So you had a busy week this week. We’re Friday.

What hobbies activities do you do to unwind, recharge? We were talking about golf earlier. I don’t play enough of it, but same when I do. Um, it’s really enjoyable.

You know, just. Even if it’s a quick, you know, 20 or 30 minutes stop at the driving range to hit a little bucket of balls and, you know, knock the rust off the swing. Right.

And just kind of. I’m rusting up over here. Right.

If you don’t. If you don’t use it, you lose it. And.

Yeah, that’s. That’s certainly one of my favorite things to do if it’s just a little bit of, like, downtime solo. But, of course, obviously, with, you know, little Sadie, it’s spending every waking minute I can with her when I’m not working, soaking it up.

Yeah. And it’s been four months, and it’s hard to believe. Right? It’s hard to believe.

It feels like 4 hours. It feels like four years. It’s just.

That’s what I always say. It’s a mental time warp. It really is, you know, and perspective on all that is just.

It’s really special, but it’s wild to experience, and it’s hard to explain. It’s very hard to articulate. Very hard to articulate.

And once you. You start going through it and feeling it, it’s like the most special stuff in the world. You told me about it, right? Yeah.

And I was like, man, I can’t wait to get there. And you’d, like, check in with me, like, hey, man, any day now you guys are going to have this tiny little human. She’s going to be all yours.

And I’m like, uh huh. And then it happened. I’m like, man, the day is here.

Like, this is crazy. And like, you, I remember the one time at NPI you told me, you’re like, you’ll immediately think differently about the world. You’ll see the world through a different set of lenses, so to speak.

And you’re like, I can’t really explain it, but I think you’ll get it once you’re there. And, man, I do. You get it.

I do. I do see it differently. And it’s all for the better.

But just the way you think about rudimentary stuff, you know, it’s just. Everything’s just a little different. Yeah.

And I like that. It’s really helped me calibrate and see the world as bigger. My heart’s bigger.

I’m definitely more present because I don’t want to forget about the funny word that she made up. Like my daughter made up a word. Bad day.

When she doesn’t know something, she goes, bade. That’s bad day. And it’s like, that is precious and I don’t ever want to forget that.

Yeah. Yeah. So I’m so happy for you.

It is so special, so it’s really cool. Thanks, man. It is.

It’s been awesome. And it will continue to be. It’s.

Oh, sure. Yeah. It’s just so cool.

Like journey. Yeah. Yeah.

It’s a fun one. I look forward to our children playing one day. Yep.

No doubt. Well, time has flown. I just looked the clock since we were talking about that.

Yeah. Speak. Oh, man.

We get talking about that and another hour. Yeah. We’ll be here till next week.

But we do need to get through a special segment. Rapid fire. Yeah.

Yeah. You’re like the first person who’s done it back. Yeah.

Yeah. So you win. Rapid fire.

We don’t even have to do it. Ha ha. Bring it on.

I want it. What you got? Okay. You ready for this? I don’t want.

Try to keep it brief. If you don’t, you lose. Just kidding.

Cool. What is your biggest source of inspiration? Family. Mainly uncles that I’ve been really close to growing up with.

And let’s just say some that I. With all the love in the world. I love these men. I don’t want to be like them.

Right. Maybe they’re a little kooky or a little this or a little that. But it taught me some really cool stuff.

And then others where I’m like, man, that’s the way, right? But my family and I have always been really close. I cherish that. Very grateful for that.

Certainly has remained from being a little kid until I’m almost 40, a huge source of inspiration, even those that are no longer with us. I think back to lessons I learned or things I was told, and now, in an older, arguably, hopefully more mature state of mind, can apply those in a more meaningful and intentional way. And I think back, and I’m like, oh, dude, I get it now.

That’s what you were talking about. That’s what you were talking about. And like, those little tiny moments in life where I connect those dots is just like, ah, that’s awesome.

Thank you so much for that. Very cool. You know, I think you have said something that hasn’t really been a perspective yet, which is the inspiration of those, that you are inspired not to do stuff.

Because I have a goal like that in my life where, man, do I want something different for them. I can’t control them. Right.

But what I’m learning from their trajectory and decisions, something that I can apply to my life to avoid. Yeah. And that’s inspiration as well.

Like learning from other people’s failures, essentially. Right? Yeah, I love that. Do you have a favorite book? Gosh, I. Maybe.

Tiny habits. James clear. I haven’t read that.

Or, wait, atomic habits. Atomic habits? Yeah. Sorry, I messed that up.

Tiny habits sounds like a cool book, right? Maybe we should write that. Yeah, I like that, but atomic abbots. James clear, I’m almost certain, is the guy that the author that wrote that.

It’s one of the books that I like to just randomly pick up and almost like we’re doing the 50 50 thing in NPI, you pick a card, beginning of the deck, back of the deck, metal of the deck. You just take that thing open, just jump into some part of it. Kind of like, oh, yeah, I remember there’s a lot in that book, you know, and I think that it’s one of those, those cool ones where you can just pick it up arbitrarily, jump into a piece and find something meaningful, cool.
And it’s a cool mental, like, refresh. I love books that make you think I know how. I don’t read much fantasy stuff or, you know, nonfiction.

I’m just a nerd through and through when it comes to that stuff. You mean you don’t read a lot of fiction? Excuse me? It’s all nonfiction. Yeah, right.

Cool. I don’t read much fiction at all. I mean, I’ll be honest, I don’t care.

I like movies and stuff like that. I don’t get it through books. Yeah, I’ve tried.

Some are really amazing and I have a cool mental journey going through it, but it’s just not my cup of tea. I’d rather read about personal growth or business stuff or like I said, books that make me think it’s that type of stuff that I love. I feel you very much on that.

I think you’ve recommended atomic habits and someone else has, and it’s on my list and it’ll be in the show notes, so we’ll make sure that the author’s correct. But I also feel, for me, when I do read fiction, it’s like hard science or hard Sci-Fi sure. So where it’s Sci-Fi but it’s rooted in real science, that could happen.

Yeah. So it’s fun, but it’s like kind of practical. Yeah.

I was gonna say you’re not swaying too far from the. Yeah, yeah. So I like that, like Carl Sagan’s contact is like one of my top novels that I like where that one I’ve read twice.

And, you know, they made a movie with like, Matthew McConaughey and the movie just doesn’t. I remember that. Yeah, it wasn’t great.

They missed a huge part of the book, like literally a third of the book or a main. Main thread of the book. But, yeah.

Anyways, can’t win them all. No, no. Most of the time, books, you know, are better than the movies.

Yeah, all the time. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

It’s hard. It’s also a shorter amount of time to develop characters. That’s why tv shows are so powerful, is because now a tv show is almost like a movie.

Right. But you have ten of them, right? Just a season to develop the characters and develop the story and to do what you will with them. So do you have a favorite musical artist or a favorite album? Let’s see.

Honestly, I was a big smashing pumpkins fan. Oh, yeah. In like, middle school, that kind of thing.

And Billy Corrigan, I thought was just an out there kind of different dude. His lyrics, his performances. And just if you ever watched him or listened to him, like in an interview, he always had some really interesting perspectives on things.

Can’t say I really follow those guys anymore. I still listen to some of their new stuff. But I love what was melancholy and the infinite sadness.

That album from way back, I think it was 96 or 97, if I’m remembering right. Yeah. But, yeah, those songs bring me back to that time as a youngster, middle school, me and my buddies hanging out, and, you know, one of us has, like, a boombox or something that we got from Christmas, and we put that cd on and, like, you know, eighties kid stuff and just transports you.

Yeah, yeah. That’s the beauty of music. That’s why I always, in my mixes, have older stuff that I’ve listened to that that cycles through to just, like, it’s almost grounding.

Right? Like, there’s. You can feel it in a different way through your bones to a deeper spot than something new. But it’s cool, because I think about that when I’m listening to new stuff, and I’m like, in ten years, 15 years, I’m gonna feel that about this song.

Right. That’s kind of almost a gauge on. Is this a good song? You know, already thinking about the nostalgia that this song that this could be.

Yeah. Yeah, that’s cool. I didn’t think about it that way.

I like that. Yeah. No one’s answered smashing pumpkins, so you’re really doing well.

Yeah, that’s cool. Very happy with your performance. All right.

It’s the Kirkland. Okay. You get to spend a day with any person, dead or alive.

Who is it? Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah.

This was supposed to be rapid fire. Yeah, no, it usually doesn’t end up that way. They’re very seldom.

Yeah, I was gonna say. Gosh, there are, like, just so. So many that, you know, how do I. How do I answer just one? It’s.

It’s really tough. I know it’s me. So you can get that out of the way.

So. After me. Yeah, after you.

Honestly, man, I think someone on, like, the. In, like, way more of the spiritual side of things, and it’s not anyone. Like, I’m.

So if I could spend the day with the Dalai Lama, I was just thinking as you. No kidding? Yeah, I swear. Yeah, I swear.

Yeah. I think because I. You know, although I respect my own, like, spiritual side, I know it’s not my most developed peace, which is okay, it’ll get there and, you know, everything else, but I think that would be, like, the most interesting. Just absolutely rip your mind open and take you to places you never really thought you could go.

Type of an experience to sit and have a real candid conversation with someone like that. Totally. Yeah.

So I’ll accept that answer. All right. Yeah.

Yeah. Wanted to just kind of give it something a little bit different, but I like it. I like it.

Something on the spiritual side there. And Dalai Lama would be the one. Love it.

So, do you share a fun fact or hidden talent that most people don’t know about you? Hmm. So, Florida man, right? Grew up here in St. Pete. Born and raised.

So you’ve wrestled an alligator. Right, right. And close friends, family, whatever.

They’ve been with me, and they know. But I’m a huge snow skier. That’s, like, my number one.

If you could ask me right now anything where I’d rather be. Of course, the Naaman Creative show podcast is number one. Or second to that would be the slopes.

Flying down a snow covered mountain on my skis, jamming out to maybe the smash of pumpkins, but something awesome sounds fantastic. A little bit of tunes as you ski, I think, is, like, the most perfect little balance of bliss. Oh, yeah.

And it’s something I think about often as Sadie’s growing up. Like, how soon can I put a baby on skis? My buddy just put his very young daughter on a snowboard. Really? I love it.

I couldn’t believe it. How young is very young? She’s, like, maybe three. Okay.

Right on. Yeah, yeah. I learned right before I turned three.

I was like, about. Let’s just say three. I was about three.

Two or three, something like that. I love. I get the opportunity to do that with.

With our daughter, I’m sure. But that’s clear. That’s my number one thing.

And you said, like, talent or whatnot. Um, again, not like, toot my own horn here, but, uh, for Florida man, I can definitely rip it up on a set of skis. I think.

A couple of times, I’ve seen north of 70 miles an hour on, like, one of the little race type courses where they would just let you, like, you know, book it. Wow. Yeah, I broke my leg really bad skiing in high school.

Almost lost my leg. No kidding. Yeah, dude.

So. But I love skiing. It’s fun.

Love it. I still go. Yeah.

Did you say something about an NPI ski trip? Is that what you just said? That’s what. Probably what we should do. Yeah.

Yeah. Somebody should call Devica. Okay, so golf outing and ski trip.

Ski trip. I like this. This has been really productive.

Yeah. Two very expensive hobbies. Yeah.

We just got to refer each other. More business. Yeah, exactly.

All right, one more. You’ve done great. How do you define success? I say that it is.

So we have our why. Right? You should if you don’t get it. Whatcha doing? Right.

Whatcha doing? Stop clowning around. Oh, so providing, you know. Cause I’ll just say mine, like my family.

Right. My daughter, my wife. Like our, me too.

Like us as a unit providing that. Why our family, the experiences and call it a lifestyle, right? Because it is. But the experiences through, you know, things cost money these days.

The old cliche like, oh, money can’t buy happiness. Got it. But it’s required to go sometimes, right? Experience certain things like skiing.

It’s not free, the lift tickets are expensive, got to rent the skis, got to get out there, whatever, whatever. Airplanes, all this stuff, right? So success would be defined as being able to provide those and do, like, good onto others in terms of, like some sort of philanthropic type behavior, whether that’s volunteering time, donating money to some kind of charitable organizations, and never feeling that you’re encumbered by money. Meaning like, oh, I can’t do that because I don’t have the money.
Well, I’m saying that a lot now because I’m on my way there, right? That’s the ultimate, like, the end goal, the retirement type stuff, right? And so doing all of that while leaving the world a better place than you found it. So some folks, you know, they lie, cheat and steal their way to the top and have millions of dollars and say, hey, I just cut this check to some charity and look at me and I’m gonna post it on instagram. So everybody thinks I’m a good person.

But you’re the reason that. You’re the reason. Yeah.

Boom. See? Yeah, you connected those dots fast, but that’s exactly what I was driving at, right? And so, like, to do it, be one of the good guys, as they say, like, do it the right way, like, leave a legacy for our daughter. Right? And listen, I’m not, you know, there’s plenty of money out there for everybody to have these great experiences.

I’m not looking for anything more than I need, but again, to be able to help some others along the way, leave a legacy for my daughter and experience these, like, unforgettable things together, whether that’s traveling, you know, spending time together at the beach, you know, doing all the cool stuff that we like to do as a family. Love it. Yeah.

And it’s cool because you are, you know, you are making a difference with the work that you do. You know, it’s. It’s important work.

If anybody had a doubt, like, the beginning of this podcast, you know, like, hopefully it’s a bigger glimpse into, like, the meaning behind a mortgage, you know, alone, like, what that can do and the importance of it in our society, like, the fabric of our stability and security as a nation. Not something you think about at a deep level each day, but it’s a pretty big deal. I’m glad that you’re behind the helm of some of it, to be honest.

I appreciate that very much, my friend. Yeah, I just want to wrap it up with a couple things. Number one, future goals.

What does Mike Marcus look like in five to ten years, career wise? General. Yeah. Continued growth is always something I’m working towards and constantly on the forefront of my mind.

What that really looks like is putting myself into a position where. And I’ve got a nice little team around me. Right.

Because mortgages can’t solely be done by one person, as you’ve experienced. Right. A lot of hands in that potential, but continuing to grow that team as my business itself grows, to put myself into a position where I’m not quite as hands on with some of the stuff that, as, you know, you’ve grown your business, there are things that you don’t do now that you did three years ago because you had to.

Definitely. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah, 100%. It’s not that I’m just going to sit at home and pick up the phone and be like, hey, guys, you got a bunch of mortgages in there with my name on it.

You all good? All right, I’m going fishing. That’s not it at all. But to be able to really kind of dig in to some of the aspects of, like, the relationship side of things with my referral partners with the clients themselves and really kind of mentor some of the newer people on the team to help them achieve their goals.

Cause I think someone like you and I think share a similar mindset of continued growth. Right. Like, you don’t want to just sit stagnant.

You got to get off the x, keep moving. Keep moving upward. Right.

So I think a part of that is always helping other people do that same thing. Right. Cause we’re not like pushing people down next to us to get ahead of them.

We’re like pulling them with us. Like, come on, man. Come on, girl, let’s go.

Yeah, and that pushes you. Yeah, that pushes you. Right.

So it’s like kind of what makes that go full circle. So I think, you know, doing those types of things on a scale is really where I see the next, like five to ten years kind of going on a business side of things. Love it personally.

And, you know, I’ve hinted at this because maybe I’ll just spill the beans. You’ve already told the world, but I was maybe privy to a little information about the Naamans before some of the others in the world were right. And I shared with you that we’ve, you know, Sarah and I have had that conversation.

We continue that conversation about what does that look like? Maybe for number two and. Yeah, stuff like that. So in five to ten years.

Yeah, I would love that for that to be a thing. More marcuses? Yeah, more marcuses. I love it.

Well, that’s gonna help the world forward, that’s for sure. So that’s kind. You’re one of the good ones.

I love that. And you’re gonna hit those goals. There’s no doubt about it.

And I look forward to sitting next to you watching those goals be achieved. It’s awesome, man. And hopefully pushing some stuff your way, if I mean myself, but hopefully real quick to end it.

I like ending it this way. Big piece of advice, the most important piece of advice you could give literally anybody listening right now. Wow.

On the spot. So is this as it relates to any mortgage or like anything? It could be mortgage. You get real specific.

Or if you, there’s some philosophy in life where you just want to drop a bomb or succinct tip and trick on getting a lower rate. You call me today, my number’s at the bottom. It’ll be in the notes of the episode.

It definitely will. But I mean, I think the biggest piece of advice would be, I just kind of hit it on it as like the never stop growing, don’t sit stagnant, get off the x. Those types of things is to, you know, it sounds cliche to say like, chase your dreams and everything else, but truly, like, get off your ass.

Go do it. Go get it if you want it. Totally make it happen.

Sit down and put a tangible plan into place. And the biggest thing, I think where, you know, no judgment to anybody, but, like, is execution, right? Like actually doing it. Oh, yeah, all the time.

You see folks that are like, hey, I’m gonna try this. And they never really gets off the ground because they don’t execute. I’ve been guilty of it plenty of times.

It’s really difficult to do. And so the times that I have executed things, some fail, some succeed overall, it’s, what did I learn from this? And let’s do it again. And that you went for it.

Yeah. You went for it, right? Yeah. There’s a lot of talk out there.

Yeah. You could have like the greatest idea. What do you doing with that idea? How are you going to execute on it? And if you have a lot of ideas, well, you can’t do everything at once.

So what’s your highest priority? Or what’s the thing that’s going to allow you to then work on those other ideas, get you to the next step? Yeah. Yeah. That’s fantastic advice.

I was really looking forward to. How can I get that rate down? But that’s right. I know you’re keeping the secrets for those trillionaires.

Yeah. Just kidding. All the secrets.

All those secrets. I think we spilled some beans today and then picked them up and ate them. That’s right.

Kirkland. Kirkland. Very good beans.

I appreciate your time, man. Yeah, it’s been a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it’s been awesome, man. What a cool experience. And, yeah, really, really proud to see you guys doing big things.

It’s super cool to watch, so keep it up. I know you will. That means a lot, and same to you.

Right on, brother.