51: A Dive into Sobriety & Freedom (w/ Andy Vidmar)

Andy Vidmar, thanks for joining me on the Name & Creative show. Thanks for anybody out there listening still. I’m just honored that you guys give me an hour change with me and my guests. So welcome back if this is your first time. Buckle up. Andy and I met at a book club in a really cool group where he spoke, and I just… I was captivated that night.

You know, the stories that are shared are so powerful and so moving, and it’s hard not to connect with all of them. And for some reason, I was compelled to ask you to come on the show that night, and you were very receptive and open to it. So I appreciate you coming today. It’s super cool. Thanks for having me, Josh. It’ll be fun to find out why

I’m here. I think you already know. I mean, I guess maybe we just kind of start early on and kind of bring people through your journey, which, you know, I… You know, this whole thing I was telling you before we started, it’s like, I just enjoy learning about what people have been through, what they’re doing, all the cool stuff, how people got there, why, you know? And because there’s so much we

can learn from anybody, you know, whether they’re a magician or my grandma or Santa Claus. Because you were like, I saw the guest list that you’ve had so far, right? It’s eclectic. That’s the fun of it. So this will be no different. I hope so. Yeah. So take us back, you know? Because also, you know, we’re new friends, and so this is a great way to

get to know each other as well. Where are you from? What landed you here in Florida? Okay. I was born and raised in Ohio. 50 years we spent there. Married, had a couple kids, raised them. They got out of the house at, you know, 22, 23. And, you know, we kind of looked at ourselves and said, you know, there’s nothing

holding us back here anymore. Ohio was a wonderful place to raise a family, but, you know, every year you’re… Where do you vacation to? You’re in Florida. We had a timeshare and a condo here and there. And so we started kind of advertising our wares. My wife found a job in Sebring, and within three months we had packed everything up, sold everything off, and here

we are. Wow. That was 2019. Okay, cool. Okay, so you… I was just a year in front of you. I’m from Indiana. Yeah. So we’re both… we’re both from up there. Right. It’s good to be here, you know, considering with COVID and all the things that went down since. Oh, man. I tell people that all the time, that I’m so

grateful to move down here at that time because I was able to still, like, we could go to the beach at least, you know? The free state of Florida. Yes. We certainly were free. So there was that. But it was still a pretty difficult time. My goodness. It was weird. Did you do well through COVID?

Yeah. I mean, I got COVID. I felt bad for three days. You know, I was forced to stay home from work for five. It was kind of no big deal. But I was fortunate. I didn’t have any, you know, comorbidities or health issues. So I kind of was, I don’t know, kind of young and healthy, and it

didn’t affect me bad. No, I’m glad to hear that. So what did you do for work? I was doing property management maintenance for a large company here in town. And I was just like a sales guy, you know? They’d come to me with problems, and I’d bid the projects if it was a broken fence or water intrusion, painting, that kind of stuff.

Okay. And you use the past tense, was. What do you do in anything similar to that, or do you take a turn? Yeah, yeah. I was there for four and a half years. It was kind of a privately held company. A couple owners, they sold out to private equity, and it just was kind of untenable, you know, that corporate rigid structure. So I just recently, I started

Monday. I took a job as an outside, they call it B2B sales, business to business, for Ace Hardware and Largo. Oh, wow. Okay. And I love it. Oh, great. Family-owned, wonderful boss, autonomy. So far, so good. That’s huge. I mean, that’s so important. Yeah. Yeah. There’s nothing worse than, like, feeling owned or in a box or, you know, just… It’s life.

It’s a big part of our life, working, you know? It’s like, I want to be doing what I kind of want to be doing. It’s not always perfect, but… Yeah. Autonomy. I’d like to be successful, right? And I feel like, you know, I’m 62. I should be trusted at this stage of my life. I think you’ve earned that. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a really

good move. And, you know, sometimes when it gets bad, it’s a blessing. Sure. Well, I know you’ve… Then you would consider kind of your journey that you spoke about when you spoke about it as a blessing then, because it hasn’t been… It hasn’t been easy getting through what you got through. No. It was a spiritual awakening of the burning bush variety.

And it was, you know, at the time, the worst thing that ever happened to me. And I look back on it now, 26 years later, and it was the best thing ever happened to me. Wow. You know, you really look at adversity as an opportunity when you’re in the middle of it. Yeah. It’s good to be able to look back and appreciate it.

That’s so powerful. You know, I mean, we spoke about COVID. That was a really dark time for me. But then out popped Name & Creative, my business, from it. And now I’m better than ever, you know? So it’s just, you know, these highs and lows. There’s a great, great quote that I always say from a great movie. If you’ve ever watched Vanilla Sky with Tom

Cruise. Oh. Oh, man. And Cameron Diaz and Penelope Cruz. It’s a really great film. It’s so good. But one of the lines is, “The sweet isn’t as sweet without the sour.” You know, and that always stuck with me. Little one-liners always stick with me. But. For sure. You had some sour, so maybe we can fill in some context of, you know, that journey.

Like, maybe, I don’t know, I guess you’re the one to start somewhere on where it makes sense to kind of start your story and bring us through what happened. Because you’re obviously doing great now, and it’s just been awesome to… I just… It’s wild. I meet new people, and I feel proud of them, you know, in a way. And I’m proud of myself for being on similar journeys, but

we all have very different trajectories. But, you know, it’s a neat thing. But I’ll say less and give you the floor. Okay. Thanks, Josh. It was like 1999. I had a three-year-old girl. I was unhappily married. It was a difficult time in my life because I was drinking and acting alcoholically, and I had no idea. But, you know, one day my

wife just looked at me and she said, “Man, you have got to quit doing drugs or we’re done.” So I, you know, looked at my medical card. I called the 800 number. I went down and I got an interview with the admissions folks at rehab, and they said, “Of course, you’re an alcoholic.” You know, I failed every question they asked, even if I lied on it, you know?

You know, I had a couple beers, officer, right? Uh-huh. And so they kind of tried to enroll me Monday in this IOP, Intensive Outpatient Treatment thing. And I said, “Why can’t Monday? We’re going on a cruise, you know, first things first.” And they said, “Well, come back the following Monday and we’ll get you started.” So they gave me a little package to go, you know, a book

and a folder and some flyers and, you know, kind of homework to do. And I didn’t think much of it, you know? We went on the cruise two days later. You know, typical Andy was, you know, we just rent jeeps in Aruba and we go to the liquor store and take the top down and, you know, start drinking and driving along the beach. Like, we ran out of tires to change.

We had three flats. And the only reason we kept going is because we had other people in our little convoy and we borrowed their flat tires. So, you know, that was just kind of normal everyday vacation behavior for us. And my wife was, you know, obviously a drinking buddy of mine. And the second day of the cruise, we were supposed to go scuba diving, you

know, and you wake up at 6, you train in the pool, you get like, you know, certified. Oh, man. After 15 minutes. Mine was a little pond behind an apartment complex. Right. Let’s go. Oh, yeah. So, you know, we’re down in St. Croix, this place called the dive site one of all places, you know, where they take the beginners. And it’s probably 8 in the morning.

We get into the water, we’re down maybe, I don’t know, 5 or 10 minutes where we’re still kind of waiting for people to drop down. And my wife had some kind of breathing problem. She had to kind of pop to the surface to catch her breath. Not good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it’s kind of scary, you know, first time down for both of us.

And, you know, she pops to the surface and gets run over by a 38-foot sport fishing boat that was cruising about 15 knots right through dive site one because they were in a hurry to go somewhere. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it was awful for her, you know? It was worse for her than me, for sure. She told me that she popped her head, she heard something coming, she

turned, looked, she took a couple paddle strokes to get her torso out of the way, which saved all of our lives or the tanks would have blown up, right? And the boat clipped her leg and chopped it off right there in the water. Was it, like, clean? I don’t know if that… Well, the prop’s spinning so fast that there was a few cuts. And, yeah, the leg was just kind of hanging

there by meat, you know, just below the knee. And, of course, I didn’t see that. You know, I’m still trying to just get my bearings down at the bottom. I didn’t even realize she had gone up yet. Oh. So our instructor gets down there and, you know, he kind of tells us to just stay here. And they went up and, unbeknownst to me, they got her on,

like, a rescue boat, you know? They makeshift. Yeah. Somebody to run her ashore. And then he told us to go up. And we were… I was swimming kind of back towards the boat, following the guide. And I passed this jellyfish in the water. It turned out it was a portion of her leg. I didn’t recognize it. Oh, my God.

Yeah. That’s the last thing your brain would register. Oh, yeah. You know. That’s definitely a jellyfish. Yeah. Yeah. So… Did that boat stop? Yeah. They actually circled back around right over our heads again. Oh, no way. To pick her up. Because they heard it, they felt it. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And, you know, I got mixed feelings about that captain.

He had some kind of paramedic training, and they had put a… What do they call that when they cinch it with the belt? Oh, man. A tourniquet. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, of course, that did stop the bleeding to a certain point, and that probably saved her life. And they actually had an IV thing on the boat and a lot of, you

know, medical equipment, so… Wow. Yeah, they raised her back. And, yeah, that was 8:30 in the morning on November 4th of 1999. And that was my sobriety date. That day. Were you guys drinking that morning? Were you drinking? No, I’m sure it was the night before. Yeah, right. Yeah. Because… Which is a bad idea. It’s not a good…

Yeah. Yeah, before diving. Right. Oh, man. I mean, so what? You said 1994? 1999. 1999, right. Oh, my gosh. And you had… Jeez. And she okay now? Yeah. I mean, she made it out? Yeah, yeah. She made it. It’s kind of a long story. We wound up on an air ambulance back to Cleveland.

We had, like, a charter flight manifest to head from St. Croix to Cleveland on this little tiny private jet or whatever. Thank God my father had $15,000 available on a credit card to fire up the engine. And, you know, nothing against St. Croix, but we would rather have her, you know, live or die in an American hospital in America at home.

Yeah, sure. Preferably. We got a three-year-old kid at the house, you know? So we tried to make it to Cleveland, and they, for some reason, we had to stop and get gas. I don’t know, headwinds or something. You know, I was just oblivious to all this stuff. I thought we were in Cleveland when we landed, you know?

And we kind of had to go through customs, I guess, because St. Croix is some kind of quasi, not quite America. Yeah. And the guy was looking at the passenger manifest and counting heads, and, you know, he doesn’t even know what’s going on because we weren’t supposed to be there. And he says to the captain, “How many souls are on board?” And that was

asking, “Is she alive or dead?” And I knew that when he said it. And, of course, I just started crying. And the count matched, so the guy just got us out of there real quick, you know? It was like a top off and go. And we land in Cleveland, and, you know, I’m wearing, like, a T-shirt and tank top and flip-flops, you know? It was 88 degrees when we left.

And, you know, it’s snowing, November in Cleveland, and there’s this little airport. It’s like a private place, you know? It’s not… It’s in downtown Cleveland called Burke Lakefront, and it’s just private jets that fly in and out of there. Nobody ever really uses it, you know, except CEOs or whoever. And the door pops open, and I realize that’s where we are, and there’s an

ambulance backed up there. And two of our friends, our dear friends, come out of the ambulance with winter jackets, and they threw one on her and gave me one, and they whisked us off to Metro General Hospital, which is like the, you know, what do they call that? Five-star surg… What’s it called when you have the highest level of trauma? Oh, I don’t know what that is.

Yeah. It was the most qualified, you know, for, like, gunshot wounds, car accidents, all that stuff in the city of Cleveland. And they saved her life. They wound up kind of recutting the leg off so it could be a clean fit for a prosthetic. Wow. And, you know, she was, like, literally touch and go for a long time there. Long time, like days or hours?

Yeah. It was probably, you know, let me back up. It was maybe 30 hours in the hospital in St. Croix before she was stable enough to transport. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, that was tough. And, you know, of course, the friends that we were diving with went and got our gear off the boat and brought it to the

hospital. So, you know, the boat goes on and it’s just me and her. And really, it’s just me, you know? She was obviously out of it. And so the doc looks at me that night, you know, and I was, like, 1 in the morning, and he says, you know, “I’ve done what I could, you know? We’ll see.” You know, it’s touch and go. The next 24 hours will tell

if she’s going to live or not. And he says, “Good luck. I’ll see you in the morning.” So I went to my gear, and I found, right on the top of my luggage was the packet from the rehab center. So there was this big book on top. And, you know, I’m just thinking to myself, “Man, now is a good time to start praying.” I don’t know if anybody

out there ever had one of those, “God, help me get me out of this” prayers type situation. Well, that’s what it was. And I kneeled down, I folded my hands on that book. I’m in this cot in this little hallway. And I said, “God, if you let the mother of my daughter live, I will straighten up and fly right.” And he did, so I did.

Forever, till this day. Till this day, anyways. I don’t know about forever, Josh. Day at a time. Yeah, yeah. Day at a time. Yeah. So I said that prayer and I opened up that book, and the very first thing I read was this thing about, you know, “Will you return me to sanity?” Because I thought that was pretty appropriate, you know?

Because, I mean, this was crazy town. And at that moment, I had this, like, a hot flash. I just became, like, super sweating instantly all over me. And I just, I got up, I just had to find fresh air. I started running down this hallway, and I kind of found a stairwell, and I burst out of these double doors, and I put my hands on my knees, and

I just caught my breath. And when I went outside, this is like 2 in the morning, it just felt like I was into, like, a beer cooler. It was just so refreshing. And I believe that that was the Holy Spirit entering my body at that time because I was not capable of handling this. You know, I couldn’t even keep a plan alive, Josh.

I was a terrible employee. My wife went on vacation with her sister one time. I killed the cat. I couldn’t keep… I mean, I was super irresponsible. And just the thought of, you know, taking care of her and my daughter and, you know, the house and just all the things, it was totally overwhelming. And so, yeah, that was a spiritual experience, the first of many in this journey.

So, yeah. And then if I picked up back in Cleveland, it was about 10 days in that hospital, and I kind of lived there for the first four days. They had a real nice setup, you know, for guys like me that, you know, basically had nothing. You know, I didn’t have a car. And, you know, eventually, I found my way back home.

Fortunately, we had our sister, her sister watching our daughter, so. Oh, great. Yeah. There wasn’t, like, an immediate… Everything was taken care of for us to be gone a week anyway, you know? Sure. Right. So, yeah. And, you know, she started getting into, you know, rehab and walking, and they, you know, put a prosthetic on her. And she walked around today like, you

know, you would never know. Yeah, it was a miracle. Jeez. Yeah. And, man, I tell you, she’s a beautiful woman, but, man, when she was on Dust’s doorstep, I didn’t even recognize her, you know? It was awful. I’ll tell you one horrific side note. When we were making our way back to shore when she had the accident, I

actually beat her to the land for whatever reason. I hitched a ride with another boat, and we had to make our way to where she was. You know, we didn’t even know anything, right? There was no cell phones. So, you know, we’re running around, and we actually saw a boat coming in that looked like a dive boat, and it’s pulling into the marina, and there were ambulances

waiting there and the cops and, you know, the whole caution tape and a big whatever. Everybody knew what was going on but me. Oh. And so the boat pulls into the dock, and they got those little weep holes where you wash out water on the sides of the boat, and I could see the blood running down that gunnel. Oh, my God. So, yeah, that was my sign.

I knew that was her. And so we, you know, kind of busted through the cop line, and I went to the boat, and I seen her, and, you know, it was just horrific. And I just literally collapsed next to her on the boat. I was, like, on my knees, and, you know, I’m supposed to be strong for her, you know? Sure. She’s conscious this whole time. Oh, my gosh.

And, yeah, I don’t remember very much after that, you know? So, yeah. So that was my bottom, man. That was a tough day to get sober. Well, it’s interesting because you weren’t necessarily drunk and drinking at that time, but it was like a key life moment. And, I mean, I guess maybe you were still maybe hungover from the night before or something, but it was just like a…

It was a wake-up or like a shake. Big T trauma. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I had no coping skills to get through something like that. Both my parents were alcoholics. You know, four out of four aunts and uncles were alcoholics. And so, you know, I was kind of raised by wolves, you know? I didn’t have, you know, conversations about feelings and emotions like a lot of kids,

you know? Maybe not a lot of kids had that, you know? Who knows what’s normal? Gosh, it’s hard to find it. There’s so many different kinds of people. One thing that I am grateful for is, you know, sobriety makes me feel real normal as far as what I’m doing to raise my kids. I feel like if I’m doing my best and being as good

of an example as I can be, then I’m as calibrated to what I believe should be doing and they taking from me and learning from me as I could be, which wasn’t always the case, and that wasn’t okay, you know? Yeah. It’s like going through life and you’re just off target on everything, you know? Like you said, calibrated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I had to get recalibrated.

I had to learn to get out of myself for five minutes, you know? Sure. I was just so self-centered all the time. And you don’t even know… You have zero self-awareness. There’s a lot of excuses we tell ourselves in so many different ways, like, “No, it’s not me,” or, “It’s other people’s problems,” or, “I’m not that bad,” or, “It’s not that bad,” or, “It doesn’t…

You know, I’ve got control over it,” or, “I’m not doing so bad.” I ran into a lot of assholes when I was drinking. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn’t me, though. Yeah. What a coincidence. Right. So did you ever before that analyze your drinking and that it was a problem? That it was an issue? Like, I guess your wife had told you, like, “You

got to stop,” but then you went on that cruise and continued. Yeah. For years before that, I mean, I had a therapist, a shrink that I was going to to try to help me stop, and, you know, he recommended I go to AA, and, you know, my friends would, you know, see me getting high and, you know, drinking like that, and they would often say things to me like,

“Man, do you think you’re an alcoholic? Do you think you’re addicted to that stuff?” I’d be like, “Yeah.” You know, but for a guy like me, I just didn’t learn until the pain was so great that the pain to change was less. Wow. That’s a good way to phrase it. Yeah, like your wife telling you, “Quit or I’m done with you,” and then I lose my kid.

Right. Yeah. I didn’t want to be every other weekend a Wednesday dad. Yep. Well, that’s really powerful. It takes a bottom of some kind, you know? It’s so interesting. It’s like smoking and cancer. Like, people are like, “Dude, it’s all good. I’m smoking. I’ll be fine.” And it’s like, “You have cancer.” And they’re like, “Oh, it is bad for me.” I was like, “Dang, how did I know about

that?” Yeah. Yeah, we make a lot of bad choices in life until we have these awakenings, these epiphanies. Yeah. Were there other times in your life before that where you were close to stopping or tried to stop, or was it just real consistent? Like, were there any, like, mini wake-up calls where? Oh, my gosh, Josh. Yeah, I just wasn’t listening. I wasn’t not picking up the phone to those calls,

believe me. I had three DUIs and car crashes and, you know, the dean at the school telling me that, you know, you’re on double secret probation. So I tried to quit, and then I just smoked weed every day. Yeah. I don’t want to bore you with the long, you know? That’s not boring. Yeah, there was plenty. I mean, how about my boss, who was

my father, you know, just literally not knowing what to do with me. Hmm. Yeah. And he had been clean and sober for a few years at that point. And, yeah, I’m sure I was just like the super disappointing son to him. I was literally the black sheep of the family. Interesting. Yeah. I found a letter that he was writing to an attorney.

He was doing his estate planning, and I just happened to look at his desk, and I read this sentence that says, “And I just don’t know what to do with Andy. He’s a thorn in my side.” You know? And that didn’t wake me up. Mm-hmm. What do you… Have you… I don’t know if it’s figureoutable. Wow, what a word.

But, like, have you tried to contemplate what the reasons why you were functioning this way? Like, have you pinpointed some things, or is it… Because I feel like it’s sort of an impossible task because it’s so complex, but does anything stand out where it’s like, I don’t know, either anybody listening or has been through it could maybe pick on something, pick up on it before they hit

a bottom? You know what I mean? Yeah. That’s the difference between a normal person and an alcoholic, you know? I think a normal person has a negative consequence from their drinking, and, you know, the next time they’re out at a bar, they’re like, “Wow, those two beers went straight to my head. I just want a water,” you know? Like, “I don’t want another DUI or an accident.” So, you know, I think

if I was to define what an alcoholic is, it’s, you know, drink two beers and stop. If you can’t do that, you ought to look at it. If you have negative consequences, plural, from your drinking, you ought to look at it. And, unfortunately, most of us, because it is a disease, it’s a sickness, which I talked a little bit about my family history. You know, I was alcoholic, like, from

the get-go, you know? It’s just in my genes. Both my parents were. Yeah. And, you know, two out of us four siblings are. So, yeah, we just don’t get it until that pain threshold becomes untenable. Let’s face it. There are times a business absolutely needs a new website built from scratch, done the right way, and NameInCreative can help with that.

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These one-liners get to me. But they said, like, “One is too many, a thousand’s not enough,” kind of thing. And I was like, “Oh, that’s a great way to phrase it,” you know? How young were you? Because you said early on. Like, when did this begin where you just started to go for it? Yeah, yeah. As soon as I had some freedom in high school, you know, 15,

some of my friends start driving, and we have the opportunity to get out of the house. You know, that’s when my drinking career started, you know, which is kind of normal, you know, kind of. Sure. Yeah. That was about my time. Yep. Yeah. And then, you know, I was working with my father, and, you know, I’m 16-year-old driving the truck home with beers between our legs.

Geez. Yeah. This is 1985 or something. Yeah, it was crazy. So you’ve popped out. What are some methods that keep you calibrated, that keep it straight for you? Any particular things that really help you out? Yeah. So I did complete that intensive outpatient treatment program. They recommended that I go to a 12-step program. I started going to meetings, and

I realized that, you know, those guys were just like me. And once I started recognizing the similarities and kind of ignoring the differences and trying not to compare myself out, I realized that, you know, these guys are fun. They’re funny. They’re energetic. They’re smart. They’re hardworking. You know, we had a lot in common. And they like to goof around and, you know, make fun of themselves and

joke around and golf and, you know, do all the things but not drink. Right. Who knew that you could do things? I found a sponsor. He was like the same section 12 seats down from me in the Dog Pound in Cleveland. Oh, really? Yeah, to watch the Browns. I was like, “No way.” So, yeah. And then we started going on golf outings, and, you know, once I started

fellowshiping with the guys, you know, it became a way of life. And, you know, real soon, I, you know, kind of distanced myself from all those old drinking buddies. And then I, you know, once you find guys, it’s like finding survivors from the Titanic, you know? You’re like, “Hey, been there, done that. Come on, let’s go grab a sandwich.” Yeah, sure. You have a lot in common.

A lot in common. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s just like, “Oh, you get it. You feel that too,” or, “That happened to you,” or whatever this wild thing is that, unfortunately, feels unfair. It’s kind of a bummer, right? Because, you know, there are sweet spots where it’s like, “That felt good. That was nice,” you know? But you don’t maintain that sweet spot, you know?

You blow right past it, and it’s really hard to capture it. But, you know, it is a bummer. It’s like knowing that, like, “Oh, this just, like, can’t be part of my life because that sweet spot’s, oh, fleeting.” Yeah, yeah. One thing I noticed in sobriety was that you take away the alcohol, and it just awakens your nervous system and your emotions. So when the good thing happens, it

is awesome. Yeah. It’s not a numbed feeling like it was when you were using. So that’s like the best part about being sober. It’s also the worst because the trials are real. The pain is awful, you know? There’s nothing to drown it. Yeah. The girl you meet and breaks your heart. You really feel it. You know, I’m going to need some tools here, Josh.

What do I do with myself? Just go run. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, how about feel it, you know? Talk about it. Yeah, totally. And share it. Yeah. And live, be in the moment, and don’t run away from it. You go for a jog. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Yeah. Yeah. Totally get, you know, what do they call that?

Completing the stress cycle. Yeah, certainly. Yeah. Sweat it out a little bit. So, yeah. And, you know, and then there’s the God thing, right? Yeah. And to recognize that, you know, life’s tough, especially when you’re, like, trying to do it by yourself. Like, “Oh, I got this,” you know? And then for me to think that, you know, “Oh, thank you, God, for helping

me get rid of this physical compulsion and the mental obsession,” you know? But, you know, this thing at work with this jerk boss, I got this one. You know? So the reliance upon a higher power and sharing, you know, my problems with my sponsor goes a long way to resolving problems to the point where, you know, I don’t have these anxiety buildups like I used to, you know?

Sure. I used to be very short-wicked. Yeah. Because one of the things is to continue to be aware of what’s going on and take care of it quickly, from what I’m learning, you know? Yeah, for sure. It’s difficult to have the discipline, right? Because I didn’t have any of it. And then, you know, the discipline comes first, and then the stability. Yeah, sure. So that’s like a sequence that, you know, was

difficult for me to understand. What would you say with, you know, recovery or, like, some of the biggest misconceptions? I just feel like, you know, I’ve been now exposed to this realm that really, I don’t know, it’s kept in the dark or people don’t talk about it or people dismiss it or whatever it is. And then, obviously, there’s so many things that… There’s so many misconceptions, you know?

And, ultimately, like, my goal is try to, like, maybe through these kinds of discussions is to help people recognize certain things, whether it be about themselves or other people or just understanding what people are going through and maybe trying to break down some of the barriers of, like, the misunderstandings or stigmas around what’s going on. Because everybody, no matter who it is, people could look like they have all their

stuff together, real buttoned up, but who knows what happens? Until you find out they hung themselves. Yeah. Yeah. Because what goes behind closed doors, you know, the more you keep in your six secrets, really, you know, it’s a problem. Yeah. And I didn’t want to share anything because, you know, God bless my parents. They loved me in the best way that they could.

My dad was also a workaholic, and his measurement stick of you, Josh, was, you know, I would just like to see your W2. Okay. All right. And great guy, you know, fun to be with. I had a great relationship. We talked every day for the last two years of his life. Awesome. Yeah, yeah. That was a real blessing.

Yeah. But, you know, when you’re brought up like that and your yardstick is material things, monetary, you know, possessions, and, you know, we judge people like that, it’s a hollow feeling, right? Because nothing ever really satisfies you, you know? I mean, how long does that new car really make you happy? Yeah. So transferring my interest from this material stuff to relationships was a long journey.

And I recognize now that, you know, when I’m on my deathbed, I’ll hopefully be surrounded by people that love me, you know, not my car. Yeah. I don’t want to die in my garage. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s a good goal. Yeah. Unless you, like, really loved your garage. It was super cool. No, no, no. I did wind up getting divorced from that

woman. There was a point where I had to pick my marriage or my sobriety because as soon as she got off the opioids, she started drinking again. And we kind of looked at each other one day, and, you know, I didn’t want to go back to that lifestyle, and she certainly wasn’t interested in supporting mine. You know, she started drinking every day again in the house.

So, you know, we kind of ran out of things we had in common besides our daughter. So we kind of went through a pretty amicable divorce just because, you know, it was kind of irreconcilable differences at that point. Gosh. Yeah. That’s what a turn of life, you know? Because you were drinking buddies at one time, and did you try to shift her

and say, “Hey, you want to try this out with me?” Or was she just absolutely closed off to that? Yeah. No, she had no interest in it, and that was obvious. So, you know, I’m talking to my sponsor. I’m six months sober, and, you know, they say no big decisions in the first year, but she kind of made that decision for me, which, you know, now I’m

grateful for because, you know, there was a lot of years there where, you know, her drinking was problematic as far as, you know, raising our daughter. And, you know, so at least she had a somewhat stable household half the time, you know? And, you know, wonderful woman. I wouldn’t be here today if she didn’t put that ultimatum down. So, you know, I’m grateful for those 17 years we had

together and all that. And, you know, our daughter turned out to be a, you know, productive member of society, graduated college, has a little baby boy. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So, yeah, I’m a grandpa now, and… Yeah, that’s almost like evidence of beauty, you know, that you did love each other to that extent, you know? And that’s really powerful. Yeah.

There’s nothing that takes that away. No, yeah. That was there, and that’s that. That was meant to be then, and… Yeah. I’m with a wonderful woman now. Cool. Awesome. Yeah. She really just completes me. It’s, you know, she’s super supportive of my program. She got up at 6:00 in the morning Saturday to go hear me talk to some people. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, breakfast with the gang afterwards,

she’s on board. That’s really important. Obviously, it’s a, I mean, it’s a big part of your life. It’s what keeps you sustained. Totally. That’s what works. So you have to maintain that. Yeah. She’s a safe place to land, you know? At 62 years old, I got to recreate my career again, right? Starting over with a new company. Yeah. And, you know, it’s just nice to have

somebody that’s super supportive and validates my emotions and, you know, the whole nine. She’s just like a normal person, no program girl, but she’s got her own program, right? And it’s relationship theory, and we talk a lot about it. Interesting. Yeah, it’s fascinating. And so, yeah, I’m lucky to have her. Okay. Maybe I’ll have to have her on. I don’t know anything about relationship theory.

I don’t know. You’re happily married. You know, you must know something. Oh, I guess, yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. But, you know, as any relationship, you know, you go through ups and downs. That’s what, again, makes the sweet so sweet. It’s a little bit of sour. There’s always contrast. I’m a designer, you know? But I’m super grateful for what I have and also for my wife doesn’t have

what we have where it’s like, man, it’s just like, she’s like, “Yep. One glass of wine is totally good. I’m totally good.” I’m like, “How?” You know? Like, that’s just, yeah, you know? And just didn’t, she’s got a very level head, but she has been telling me through our relationship quite a bit, like, “I think you don’t have a good relationship with, you know, substances.” And, you know, like, “I

don’t like you goofed up. I don’t like who you become.” And I thought, you know, like, that’s not a problem because I don’t feel like I’m too different. But it was different enough to where it bothered her, you know? And, you know, hindsight’s 20/20 where it’s like, “I should have taken that more seriously sooner, but at least I’m here now.” Yeah. You know?

And, you know, it’s just the journey. But, yeah, she’s a real player. I’m glad you didn’t fight her long because, you know, if she says you got a problem, believe me. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. She’ll say I fought long enough. But, you know, it’s not like fighting her. It’s fighting myself. Like, I could do this. I’ve got control, you know?

I got this. I got this. Like, I got my own business. I have a master’s degree. Right. I’m not an alcoholic. I taught at university. Like, I’m smart. Yeah. But almost too smart. I tell you what, Josh, I never met a guy too dumb for my program, but I met a few too smart, and I was almost one of them.

That’s, yeah. Because you can talk yourself into anything. Oh. You can, yeah. Yeah. It’s so interesting. And it’s so cool. I have just been so grateful, like you had mentioned, like, finding a community that you, like, “Oh, my gosh, these people are, first off, awesome, and they’re, like, really clear and transparent and fun.” And we get each other in a different way than,

like, someone like my wife is like, “I don’t really understand it. I’ve seen it, but I don’t, like, get it, get it, but we can get it.” That’s like, that’s a big, big deal. Community is huge. We’re sitting in my coworking community. We don’t call it a coworking space very intentionally. We do for, like, SEO purposes and stuff, but we’re a coworking community, you know?

Because that, for businesses and people working hard and trying to build meaningful stuff, it’s really hard to do that in a silo, you know, whatever you’re doing. Like, we don’t have to do it alone, you know? You can, but… That’s the hard way. Yeah. Yeah. It’s wild, too. Like, when you open yourself up, all this opportunity starts to flow.

Like, I don’t even ask for it anymore. In a way, I guess I am because I’m, like, aligning. But, I mean, just today, someone we both know, you know, showed me something, and then he’s like, “You know, I’ve been working on this for a bit, and I didn’t realize you were working on this, too. You can take it and run with this.” And this is, like, a business idea

that he’s like, “You can have it. I just want to see it go.” And I’m like, “That’s wild.” Beautiful. Yeah. It’s just really neat. I’m like, “We’ll work it out and build it together.” But thanks. Well, when you’re honest, you know, and your relationship has a foundation of, you know, vulnerability, it goes quickly, right? And it gets deep, and it gets rewarding.

Yeah. Look at that. Indeed. Speaking of rewarding, are you ready for a fun time? Yeah. All right. You’ve reached rapid fire. There actually aren’t any rewards, but, you know, it’s still fun. Okay. I always play with my guests. So I ask all my guests the same set of questions. See all these different people answer in different and very similar ways, and it’s just

fun for me. Again, I told you this podcast is mostly self-serving, but I think people enjoy it. So the goal is to try to stay concise, but obviously, if you need to expand, go for it. Okay. So are you ready? Yeah. Fire away. Let’s fire away. All right. So first question, what is your biggest source of inspiration? I rely on God, my sponsor, and my wife.

And… It’s a three-part. Yeah. Three-part answer there. Yeah. That’s my three-forked approach. Yeah. Three-pronged. Three-pronged approach. All right. Those are pretty powerful things, and that does it. Great. All right. You’re on an island, different than St. Croix or whatever. Good. Another island. Have you been back? No. No. You don’t. Haven’t scuba dived either. I was just, yeah.

I’m a diver, and it’s already scary enough. It’s already so dangerous. And the older I get, like, the more I take danger seriously, especially, like, now needing to live for my children, I’m like, “Man, it’s risky.” Anything goes wrong down there. You can’t just pop up. I mean, you can, but it’s very dangerous. Like, it’s just so dangerous. But it’s beautiful. Diving’s beautiful, but okay, different island.

Okay. Like the Lost Island, you know? Did you ever watch that show? Sure. Yeah. Okay. So this is a two-part question. First part, you’re sitting there. You have no books. One book can fall on your lap, and that’s what you can read forever. What are you reading? Atlas Shrugged by Anne Rand. Ah, yeah. All right. That’s somewhat popular. Yeah. It was part of the top 10

best-selling books. That was in, like, the teens, 2016, maybe 2018. Yeah. And it’s epic because at that point, it was 70 years old. Right. Yeah. What resonates from that? Like, what stands out to you about that? The concept of individualism where, you know, I’m kind of responsible for my own outcomes, right? I have to have discipline and productivity. I have found that, you know, for

me, I’m best suited to carry a load. So I like being responsible and maybe taking care of people, kind of like a head of household type mentality, even though my wife is very capable, you know? Yeah. She’s autonomous on her own. And being a part of society and contributing to the community is kind of, I place a value on that. And that’s kind of what the heroes of the book

are. Okay. Cool. Yeah. I don’t usually ask too many follow-up questions, but I felt compelled to. All right. So you’re on that island now. An album or a musical artist can pop down from the sky, and that’s what you can play on repeat. What is, what are you listening to? Oh, man. I know. I hope the entire Old Dominion band can get there.

Okay. Old D’s my go-to these days. Okay. I’m a little bit country. That’s fine. That one, I get a lot of different answers. Certain ones, I get similar ones, like the biggest source of inspiration. Okay. What’s your… When you see them live, like, you look at them differently. Yeah. And we just had an unbelievable experience with them at The Sound here in

Clearwater. Oh, yeah. Just a little intimate venue. I haven’t been to that venue yet. Oh, it’s amazing. I’ve heard great things, though. Yeah. Okay. Cool. That is, like, the best feeling when you see a band live and you’re like, “Oh, thank goodness. First off, I’ve been listening to them for so long, and they’re good. They can perform it live.” But not only that, but it’s better live.

That’s when it’s like, yes. Electric. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Oh, man. It’s so, so powerful. And you did it sober. Oh, yeah. Cool. So you remember most of it. Yeah. There was four of us there, and we were just, it was nonstop. I mean, we were dripping sweat. Oh, yeah. That’s awesome. Yeah. Outdoors. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Last question. How do you define success? Oh, I love that. I want to be measured when I pass by three things: how much I have loved, how much I have let go, and how I have made people feel. I love that. That’s great. Also, no one’s answered it quite that way. A lot of similar answers for this one. That’s unique.

I love that. The letting go is so interesting because we’re in a world that just so consuming. Just like a constant need for things and want and, like, “I need that. I need this.” And really, it’s almost like a lot of the times, it should be almost the opposite. My wife and I have been going through, like, really minimizing our house because we, you know, we’ve had our whole lives, and we’ve

collected. We have our kids now. We’re like, “We don’t have room. Why do we have this thing? What does that serve us? Why do we need it? Is this bringing us joy? Do we use it?” And let’s get rid of it. It’s okay. And it feels so great. And I’m a designer by heart, like, by

trade. I’m a designer, and less is factually more. It’s just, yeah, you have more room for other stuff to breathe and to be. Yeah. I used to love things and use people. And since I’ve switched that around, my life is infinitely more rewarding. That’s a great way to phrase it. You got a lot of good one-liners, Andy. You picked up some good phrases.

Thanks, Josh. Boy. I really appreciate you opening up and being, you know, willing to share. You know, it’s a really powerful thing, you know? And I know you haven’t been on a podcast before or ever shared like this. Thank you. So, yeah. No, thank you. I’m going to give you the floor at the end. I like to say, like, you know, for anybody listening, whether they need

help to get sober or they’re on a journey or they’re a business owner or they’re a mom, what’s your biggest advice that you can leave someone listening? You can do it. And I know you probably think you can’t when I used to get introduced to speak, they would say, “This is Andy.” And let me tell you, if he can do it, anybody can do it.

And, you know, it just takes a little bit of willingness, a little bit of honesty, and a little bit of humility, right, to reach out and ask for help. And it’s out there. It’s out there. It’s at the tip of your fingertips, right? You know, there’s a lot of evil in your pocket, and there’s also a lot of good. There’s a lot of guys out there. I like to consider myself one

of them that work with new people. And, you know, it’s important to me to kind of remember where I came from and that if you just showed a little bit of activity, a little effort, we will respond. And, you know, asking God for help certainly isn’t going to hurt. I mean, it’s like, what have you got to lose? Yeah. Sure. That’s a great way to phrase it.

Yeah. Yeah. The miserable way of life that you’ve, you know, just been trudging on and suffering through, you know, you have to ask yourself, “If I want to keep going on and, you know, trotting on to the bitter end on the same path, or do I want to perhaps live on a spiritual plane?” And that’s a scary proposition to say, you know, “All right, I’m going to let go of this and

ask God for help because, you know, I’ve been doing such a wonderful job on my own.” You know, it’s kind of comical, but yeah. Yeah. That’s that letting go. It could be a very beautiful thing because, honestly, you attract more of what you need. And it’s terrifying at the same time. Sure thing. It’s a big leap. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I’m happy you took that leap.

I’m happy to be a part of it with you, happy to know you and call you a friend. You know, it’s just, it’s inspiration. Thanks for the inspiration. I really appreciate you taking the time. It means a lot, Andy. Thanks for having me, Josh. Yeah. This was fun. It was. Yeah. Thanks.